2015 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

[F1NAC]

I dream that one day we'll see a Formula 1 car lap break Montoya's 1:19.525

4.5 seconds off that last year in Qualifying.

I don´t get that obsession to improve laptimes, really. That´s too easy, just a matter of rules

They´re doing similar laptimes using a lot less fuel, to me that´s impressive.

They're not doing similar laptimes, they're 3-6 seconds off.

As for the obesession with improving laptimes, we don't want to see lap records as such, we want to see drivers pushing the car to the edge. A car capable of doing a 79 second lap will take more balls than an 84 second car after all.

Unfortunately with these cheese tires they simply cannot push the car to the limit

[Juzh]

Right click > open in new tab

[Moose]

I'm slightly surprised that everyone is going mad about the new Merc engine supposedly being way better. The order, and rough relative speeds of everyone is pretty much identical to Spa. Merc haven't run off into the distance (yet at least). To me it really genuinely looks like this engine is pretty much exactly as powerful as the last. I'd bet heavily that Merc's statement about setting up 2016 development is true.

[PlatinumZealot]

I suspect it has the same horsepower but it is better at harvesting the Heat energy.

[iotar__]

'I dream that one day we'll see a Formula 1 car lap break Montoya's 1:19.525 4.5 seconds off that last year in Qualifying." "They're not doing similar laptimes, they're 3-6 seconds off." "As for the obesession with improving laptimes, we don't want to see lap records as such, we want to see drivers pushing the car to the edge. A car capable of doing a 79 second lap will take more balls than an 84 second car after all."

Yes, like Senna (1:20.344) or Schumacher (1:20.356) in Monaco in the 90s - no balls, Rosberg '14 (1:15.989) more balls obviously.

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/43506/1/mo ... d-lap.html "2000 Indianapolis 500 winner Montoya averaged 161.448 mph (259.827 km/h) in his Williams-BMW for a time of 1 minute, 20.264 seconds around the 11-turn, 3.6-mile (5.793-km) Monza circuit. That beat the 17-year-old record that Keke Rosberg set in qualifying for the 1985 British Grand Prix at Silverstone in his Williams-Honda turbo.

Rosberg's record stood for 17 years because chicanes have been added to high-speed circuits such as Silverstone, and chicanes were already in place at tracks such as Monza. Furthermore, the FIA has kept car's speeds in check over the years by reducing engine size, banning turbochargers, reducing aerodynamic downforce and tire grip and by applying other restrictions to the cars.

Anyway, at the glance it's Merc - Ferrari - FI and Lotus - Williams (one lap) or Williams - TR-RB? - Lotus (long runs with all the ifs).

[zoro_f1]

[Just_a_fan]

A car capable of doing a 79 second lap will take more balls than an 84 second car after all.

Err, no. But we know what you mean.

[sgth0mas]

I'm slightly surprised that everyone is going mad about the new Merc engine supposedly being way better. The order, and rough relative speeds of everyone is pretty much identical to Spa. Merc haven't run off into the distance (yet at least). To me it really genuinely looks like this engine is pretty much exactly as powerful as the last. I'd bet heavily that Merc's statement about setting up 2016 development is true.

Merc didnt give the new engines to the other customer teams...so obviously the order will not change.

[AnthonyG]

I'm slightly surprised that everyone is going mad about the new Merc engine supposedly being way better. The order, and rough relative speeds of everyone is pretty much identical to Spa. Merc haven't run off into the distance (yet at least). To me it really genuinely looks like this engine is pretty much exactly as powerful as the last. I'd bet heavily that Merc's statement about setting up 2016 development is true.

Merc didnt give the new engines to the other customer teams...so obviously the order will not change.

On a sidenote. Can't we all agree the FIA should better prohibit this?

[SiLo]

I'm slightly surprised that everyone is going mad about the new Merc engine supposedly being way better. The order, and rough relative speeds of everyone is pretty much identical to Spa. Merc haven't run off into the distance (yet at least). To me it really genuinely looks like this engine is pretty much exactly as powerful as the last. I'd bet heavily that Merc's statement about setting up 2016 development is true.

Merc didnt give the new engines to the other customer teams...so obviously the order will not change.

On a sidenote. Can't we all agree the FIA should better prohibit this?

It does say it in the other teams contracts apparently, this isn't so much an upgrade, but more a development engine. The other teams will get the upgrades in due course.

Edit:

As in, Merc want to run them in their cars to make sure they are ok first, before handing them out. Essentially they are testing them because they are able to do so with such a pace advantage.

[Moose]

I'm slightly surprised that everyone is going mad about the new Merc engine supposedly being way better. The order, and rough relative speeds of everyone is pretty much identical to Spa. Merc haven't run off into the distance (yet at least). To me it really genuinely looks like this engine is pretty much exactly as powerful as the last. I'd bet heavily that Merc's statement about setting up 2016 development is true.

Merc didnt give the new engines to the other customer teams...so obviously the order will not change.

The point is not that the order hasn't changed, it's that the gaps haven't changed. The relative positioning of the teams is identical. Mercedes has not moved ahead or behind relative to the other Merc or Ferrari runners, despite a very similar type of track (high speed, with the occasional fast corner, and a couple of low speed ones).

The only conclusion from that can be that the engine isn't particularly different in terms of performance.

[Chuckjr]

1.5+ seconds faster? Come on. The excess speed Merc has is making this record winning year meaningless.

When your odds are 50/50 to win pole and the race, it takes away from the accomplishment of winning by default. Would you rather beat an equal competitor or one that is so disadvantaged they cannot beat you. Bernie and the FIA, you suck donkey balls.

I miss the days when winning pole and the race actually meant something. And I can't believe Lewis does not want red bull to have Merc engines. What is he afraid of? Is not competitive opposition the juice of life as an F1 driver? Fighting for pole and a win is where it's at I thought. A 1.5+ second advantage is like a featherweight boxer taking on a heavyweight. What fun is that?

Chilton could win a world championship in this Merc. Smh.

[dans79]

I miss the days when winning pole and the race actually meant something. And I can't believe Lewis does not want red bull to have Merc engines. What is he afraid of? Is not competitive opposition the juice of life as an F1 driver?

Maybe he doesn't like whiny spoiled brats, because that's how Marko, and to a lesser extent Horner have acted since the end of 2013.

[Chuckjr]

What other teams do and what they say has zero to do with him or his driving. He's a gifted talent - we all see that. But this formulae has impotized the winners and disenchanted the fan base. That's you. That's me.

It's insulting to be expected to swallow what is going on here. Quite frankly, If I was Hamilton id be PISSED OFF. This isn't winning. This is farcical. 1.5+ seconds?!?! That's BULL$HIT. This is a disgrace to Lewis' race craft and the history of this sport - especially this sacred racing venue.

All of this is ridiculous and we -as maybe the more grounded of the fan base- should be leading the way to change back to where gifted men like Lewis, Fred, Seb, Kimi, etc etc are given the opportunity to truly show who is best and who deserves the world championship. For real. I actually feel sorry for Lewis as I do respect his talent and it's a shame he is in this position.

Sorry for the ot rant, I just am sick of his bs. I love F1 and I'd really like it back please.
Thanks.

[PlatinumZealot]

1.5+ seconds faster? Come on. The excess speed Merc has is making this record winning year meaningless.

When your odds are 50/50 to win pole and the race, it takes away from the accomplishment of winning by default. Would you rather beat an equal competitor or one that is so disadvantaged they cannot beat you. Bernie and the FIA, you suck donkey balls.

I miss the days when winning pole and the race actually meant something. And I can't believe Lewis does not want red bull to have Merc engines. What is he afraid of? Is not competitive opposition the juice of life as an F1 driver? Fighting for pole and a win is where it's at I thought. A 1.5+ second advantage is like a featherweight boxer taking on a heavyweight. What fun is that?

Chilton could win a world championship in this Merc. Smh.

He doesn't have number one status at Merc so his work would be cut out for him.The last champion without number one status was probably Hamilton himself. (Button had number one status up to summer during hid Brawn days). I can agree with Hamilton from a TEAM point of view that it won't benefit Mercedes to give RedBull engines.