2015 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

[i70q7m7ghw]

No he is not actually, he's absolutely correct as far as I'm concerned. And, honestly? Only a highly invest fan, blinded by passion, or an very gullible person, could argue the opposite. F1 i pretty fragile at the moment and a Team like Mercedes is in a very good position to apply all kinds of pressure and even threaten to leave if they don't have it their own way in a matter such as this. That's pretty much what happens and the stewards/FIA capitulated where they would never have if that was a Manor or a Sauber team for example. Everything else is smoke and mirrors excuse for the fanboys and naive alike.

By the way, the level of fanboyism in this site is truly astonishing. It being a "technical" place and all...

Okay, so you are saying that all tyre pressures should have been taken from when the tyres were "cold" ?

On this basis, all cars on the grid would have been illegal. Happy to hear your technical reasoning for why you don't believe this?

[PlatinumZealot]

Curious to know how a .3 PSI difference on ONE tire is an advantage. Curious to know if it's approved by Pirelli when it's being filled and it's lower when it gets to the grid how there's anything anyone can do about it. Curious to know how they know an issue exisist yet allow just about the entirety of a race to go on before a descision is made to notify Mercedes that they're under investigation.

If their rear wing was longer by 0,3 cm asymmetrically (or whatever ) would you be asking about the amount of downforce it gave them and lap advantage or would it be an automatic DSQ? Would you be saying it didn't matter because they're winning anyway? No. Merc arguing about advantages of .3 PSI is only marketing.

Repeating time, order is important:
- did Merc start with pressure outside of recommended range as measured and stated in FIA document or not?
- does said pressure affect state of the tyres and therefore the safety in connection with performance at any time in the race (stressing any)? Yes, that's why it was put in place and that's why stopping Merc in the race argument exists. No later monitoring or earlier (no) blankets measurements can change that. No guilt either. "Well Pirelli measured it so it's OK" There's no place for that in races.
- only now can it be a matter of applying penalties, they only got away because of the name, it was about a race win and would have resulted in another tyres and FIA controversy, better avoid that.

It doesn't matter, boring race anyway, season is over and everything is set. Massa got a podium again and not Bottas.

You're completely omitting a crucial part. They WEREN'T under the recommended PSI when the tyres were fitted to the car for the start of the race. It's pure physics.

That is pure physics but iotar is pure politics.

Good luck changing his mind.

[TAG]

How many races this season, Kimi didn't screw up? 3 maybe? Even with no info from anywhere, just statistically I'd bet the stall was his fault.

Kimi would beg to differ. According to a post race radio message.

"OK can you now tell me what happened to the start? Because as long as I know, before you say anything, I was in the right positions in the start switch and everything but just want to understand."

That doesn't fit nicely on a t-shirt unfortunately.

[Jolle]

The problem with Kimi's start did get me wondering too:

If anti-stall did kick in, that to me assumes that a gear was engaged. I'm not sure though that actually happened... From what it seemed like, the gear simply wasn't engaged (thus no anti-stall)...

As far as I know, anti stall works when you have the car in gear and the revs come below a certain point, then the clutch auto engages.

Looks to me that the car (either trough to little gas or a fault) dropped in revs too much, anti stall was engaged (the clutch was engaged at that point while the clutch paddle was released). So Kimi had to renegade the clutch paddle, reset the anti stall, and release the clutch again.

If you look at the vid, all those actions fit.
So, most likely, a driver error, not enough throttle (current F1 cars get off the line the quickest when they, on the first get to, "bog down" a bit)

[NathanOlder]

@SimRacer

Would you care to take a minute and explain how Mercedes cheated and then how they bribed the FIA/Race Control ? Remembering of course that the tyre pressures has to be 19.5psi minimum when the tyres went on the car (which they WERE)

[langwadt]

The problem with Kimi's start did get me wondering too:

If anti-stall did kick in, that to me assumes that a gear was engaged. I'm not sure though that actually happened... From what it seemed like, the gear simply wasn't engaged (thus no anti-stall)...

As far as I know, anti stall works when you have the car in gear and the revs come below a certain point, then the clutch auto engages.

Looks to me that the car (either trough to little gas or a fault) dropped in revs too much, anti stall was engaged (the clutch was engaged at that point while the clutch paddle was released). So Kimi had to renegade the clutch paddle, reset the anti stall, and release the clutch again.

If you look at the vid, all those actions fit.
So, most likely, a driver error, not enough throttle (current F1 cars get off the line the quickest when they, on the first get to, "bog down" a bit)

the car didn't move at all, that doesn't fit with anti-stall

[Vary]

The problem with Kimi's start did get me wondering too:

If anti-stall did kick in, that to me assumes that a gear was engaged. I'm not sure though that actually happened... From what it seemed like, the gear simply wasn't engaged (thus no anti-stall)...

As far as I know, anti stall works when you have the car in gear and the revs come below a certain point, then the clutch auto engages.

Looks to me that the car (either trough to little gas or a fault) dropped in revs too much, anti stall was engaged (the clutch was engaged at that point while the clutch paddle was released). So Kimi had to renegade the clutch paddle, reset the anti stall, and release the clutch again.

If you look at the vid, all those actions fit.
So, most likely, a driver error, not enough throttle (current F1 cars get off the line the quickest when they, on the first get to, "bog down" a bit)

Isn't anti-stall supposed to avoid having a car blocked on the grid? I agree that an anti-stall like you described would be perfect for other safety incidents, but on a grid start it would be incredibly dangerous

I also remember at the Monaco GP practice a Manor crashing just outside the tunnel (Merhi maybe?) that touched the wall once, and then you can see it accelerate again and touch the wall another time: if i'm not mistaken right on this forum it was considered by the majority that the anti-stall kicked in and pushed the car to the wall

[iotar__]

Didn't one Ferrari boss said it was a mistake and the other strongly suggested it was until some new data disproves it? Since I don't see any new data and I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it (some are still waiting for new Canada spin explanation ) I'm putting it on a long list of driving below basic F1 driver competence level in close to Merc second best car. Where is Mark Webber when you need him to lament the state of F1 driving? Probably in Maldonado bashing thread.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Okay, so you are saying that all tyre pressures should have been taken from when the tyres were "cold" ?

On this basis, all cars on the grid would have been illegal. Happy to hear your technical reasoning for why you don't believe this?

I guess everyone is ignoring this because it pretty much smashes the argument to pieces

[KeiKo403]

Okay, so you are saying that all tyre pressures should have been taken from when the tyres were "cold" ?

On this basis, all cars on the grid would have been illegal. Happy to hear your technical reasoning for why you don't believe this?

I guess everyone is ignoring this because it pretty much smashes the argument to pieces

I'm with you all the way on this one mate. And who knows, Manor & Mclaren might have even being under pressured on purpose.
The rule should quite clearly be (all wheels/all cars) pressures are taken by FIA/Pirelli when tyres are fitted to the car and monitored there after via graphs based on Pressure vs Temp. But with a lot more FIA regultion jargon in there.

[NathanOlder]

Ok so Lewis won, led every lap, set the fastest lap, topped every Qualy session and was top in every practice session.
Does anyone know if this has been done before. A perfect weekend. Top in every session and led every lap setting the fastest lap.

[dans79]

Ok so Lewis won, led every lap, set the fastest lap, topped every Qualy session and was top in every practice session.
Does anyone know if this has been done before. A perfect weekend. Top in every session and led every lap setting the fastest lap.

http://f1.wikia.com/wiki/Grand_Chelem

[NathanOlder]

Ok so Lewis won, led every lap, set the fastest lap, topped every Qualy session and was top in every practice session.
Does anyone know if this has been done before. A perfect weekend. Top in every session and led every lap setting the fastest lap.

http://f1.wikia.com/wiki/Grand_Chelem

No thats just pole, fastest lap, led all laps and win.

Im talking about every single session, in current format that in 7 sessions, plus fastest lap and led most laps. So thats all 9 boxes ticket in 1 weekend.

[basti313]

Vettel in Singapore 2013.

[Moose]

Vettel in Singapore 2013.

Hamilton was fastest in Q1.