2016 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, Fri 01 – Sun 03 Jul 2016

[Vasconia]

I agree, he is not a Deity, just a kid still.
But how do you explain his tyre deg compared to Ricciardo?
Soley to running in cleaner air?

He was clearly better than Ric but the Australian did not have a good race. He was nowhere.

[sosic2121]

from the sporting regulations:

20.5 Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted

Exactly. the only problem is that this rule has been ignored to many times in the past, like in Canada. Pushing off track in any way should be punished and not considered racing incidents.
in Spain ric did same thing to vet, but vet so that coming and outsmarted ric.

also, we are now ignoring the facts that Ham hit Ros on purpose, and that Ros blocked Ham after that.

It's Prost Senna all over again and it's FIA 's fault

[ChrisDanger]

45 pages...and more than 20 about ham and rosberg... really?

Who won the fastest pitstop award?

Williams, 9th time in succession.

[wickedz50]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmddTdzXEAArdHN.jpg:large

Ferrari tyre selection was pathetic. The yellow being the best they choose just 1 set each for their drivers. Is it too much to have some reserve strategy in place by keeping some extra sets? Is Team Ferrari serious that their drivers going to deliver tyre life beyond their normal working window?

[Restomaniac]

from the sporting regulations:

20.5 Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted

Exactly. the only problem is that this rule has been ignored to many times in the past, like in Canada. Pushing off track in any way should be punished and not considered racing incidents.
in Spain ric did same thing to vet, but vet so that coming and outsmarted ric.

also, we are now ignoring the facts that Ham hit Ros on purpose, and that Ros blocked Ham after that.

It's Prost Senna all over again and it's FIA 's fault

Hamilton is in front. Look at his onboard. There is no way he could see that Rosberg had decided not to take the apex or the corner in any normal way because Rosberg was in Hamiltons blind spot.
Hamilton takes the corner as any and everyone would if you were on the outside making a pass in fact he gave Rosberg TONS of room. There is no way he would anticipate his team mate would position his car to just T-bone him.

The only way Hamilton avoids that contact today is for Hamilton to drive straight on and go completely off the track. Not 2 wheels but all his car being well, well off the track.

[Jolle]

Again...


The point here is not to absolve anyone of anything, only to say that what happened wasn't so far out of line that it should be considered unreasonable.

Sometimes --- happens.

Bhall, Bhall.. I still cannot agree with you that Suzuka 2015 is similar. Hamilton is darned right, yes. He should be proud of that wonderfully executed defense of his race line.

This is nothing like what happened today. Not in the very least. Hamilton had the line and was ahead. He left sace.. aaaannd.. he didn't hit Nico.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oJ-xXkGzv8

Not quite. Rosberg leads off the start.

http://i.imgur.com/Vg3qz6P.png

Still ahead.

http://i.imgur.com/jWFjQyR.png

Hamilton already wide of optimal line, begins to push Rosberg wider.

http://i.imgur.com/X4HQnAY.png

Hamilton now way off line, compared with Vettel and Bottas (onboard), leaving Rosberg no option but to go off the race track, in an area with no run-off.

http://i.imgur.com/ykczv3O.png

And the result - Rosberg pushed off the track.

http://i.imgur.com/N801XOD.png

To summarise:

Hamilton was not "way ahead".
Hamilton did have the inside line.
Hamilton did not "leave space" for the car alongside his.
Contact was inevitable, and only Rosberg driving off the track prevented it.

Let's compare with yesterday:

Rosberg was not "way ahead".
Rosberg did have the inside line.
Rosberg did not "leave space" for the car alongside his.
Contact was inevitable, and only Hamilton driving off the track would have prevented it.

I am in no way claiming Rosberg is innocent, but how you can constantly legitimise Hamilton's moves without acknowledging its contribution to future conflict is beyond me.

Hamilton has made the same assumption twice this year - assuming Rosberg will be compliant - and been wrong on both occasions.

This is indeed what Rosberg should have done. Then there wouldn't have been a problem and he'd won the race. In similar incidents Rosberg lets his car stand on the outside and runs off track. When Hamilton is on the outside, he gets off the pace and slides in behind him (Canada 2014/2016 are great examples of that)

The problem is, Rosberg didn't do this, he just drove waaayyyyyy past the apex, not squeezing or in control (like Hamilton was in Suzuka, he knows what he is doing, with confidence, edging the spaces)

The way Rosberg is driving the last few GP's, its impossible to overtake him, wherever you are on the track, he'll bump you off.

[Just_a_fan]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmddTdzXEAArdHN.jpg:large

Hamilton did 21 laps on a set of used Ultras. I remember when we used to say he was a tyre destroyer, sometimes needing an extra pit stop to get through a race compared to his team mate. How things have changed.

[Jolle]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmddTdzXEAArdHN.jpg:large

Hamilton did 21 laps on a set of used Ultras. I remember when we used to say he was a tyre destroyer, sometimes needing an extra pit stop to get through a race compared to his team mate. How things have changed.

Yes! The fun thing that his hero is Senna, but his driving is getting more and more Prost like.
Almost looks like he picks a way to win his races each year, this year it's being long on stints, last year was as slow as possible and the year before with intimidation from second place.

[Vasconia]

Rosberg tries to do what Hamilton has done with him several times(no leaving space on the corner and force the other driver to go out if he doesnt want to loose the race, or collide). But Hamilton is stronger on those situations and he is more crazy to win, prefering to loose everything than being second.

Taking into account both drivers attitude Mercedes will change its policies and the team will start giving team orders.

[iotar__]

To finish Merc BS, Rosberg's defending wasn't clean but:
- it was the last lap & "At the end of the second to last lap, Nico's brake-by-wire failed, so he had no electronic braking."
- they are team-mates with a history of pushing off in the opposite direction, it's subjective but it matters to me judging it.
- there was not penalised Spain crash that robbed him of a win, it's subjective but it matters to me judging it.
- there was pitstops/undercut and tyres/strategy decisions basically against him that lead to it. Why? Keeping him on one stopper would have been better, evidence: pace & deg on softs, pace on SS and Verstappen's 15-end stint.

Magnussen's penalty was so obvious [-o< .

[ChrisDanger]

I hope we get a crashfree thread tomorrow, like after Spain.

Awesome idea. I propose that we leave this thread open tomorrow yet, but after that I close it and open a crashfree topic.

In light of the above, can we just stop discussing the HAM-ROS incident now? I think everything has been said over the last 25 pages that ever could be said about it, no-one's going to suddenly change their mind, and do you really need to add your two cents?

[sosic2121]

from the sporting regulations:

20.5 Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted

Exactly. the only problem is that this rule has been ignored to many times in the past, like in Canada. Pushing off track in any way should be punished and not considered racing incidents.
in Spain ric did same thing to vet, but vet so that coming and outsmarted ric.

also, we are now ignoring the facts that Ham hit Ros on purpose, and that Ros blocked Ham after that.

It's Prost Senna all over again and it's FIA 's fault

Hamilton is in front. Look at his onboard. There is no way he could see that Rosberg had decided not to take the apex or the corner in any normal way because Rosberg was in Hamiltons blind spot.
Hamilton takes the corner as any and everyone would if you were on the outside making a pass in fact he gave Rosberg TONS of room. There is no way he would anticipate his team mate would position his car to just T-bone him.

The only way Hamilton avoids that contact today is for Hamilton to drive straight on and go completely off the track. Not 2 wheels but all his car being well, well off the track.

I agree with you. that's what Nico did in Canada, Austin and Suzuka, but that is not the point I'm trying to make.
I'm blaming FIA for ignoring this "racing incidents" since ever. Even now Nico is not punished for pushing hamilton of the track, as lewis wasn't in canada.
next race we will have the same thing, only question is how will be on the inside(as Nico said)

[iotar__]

OK I couldn't help myself , deliberate off track pushing. Where is Hamilton going?? Call the press, Charlie Whiting and police, completely unacceptable.

[Jolle]

OK I couldn't help myself , deliberate off track pushing. Where is Hamilton going?? Call the press, Charlie Whiting and police, completely unacceptable.
http://i.cubeupload.com/rx2aY6.jpg
http://i.cubeupload.com/zK87fP.jpg

And again, think you must have a problem with where on track is what permitted or what options do you have?

Here it's naughty, and racing. Rosberg has a choice. Run off track (what he did I thought) or back off and drop behind Hamilton (what Hamilton and other WC drivers do in those kind of moments)

Last lap in austria was before the apex, under braking. No backing off there, no dropping in behind, just off track or a collision.

[bonjon1979]

It's entirely different. That is on the exit of the corner. You could compare it if Hamilton were doing it to Rosberg on the far right hand side of the track but he didn't. This is what happens in racing, the inside man through the corner is always going to go to the outside of the track on the exit. Rosberg drove at Hamilton before the corner, he didn't even try to turn. It's a completely different situation.

Hamilton is also ahead in these pictures. In austria, Hamilton was a good 3/4s of a length ahead of rosberg when they were on the brakes, Nico broke later and threw it up the inside. Even though Hamilton broke earlier he was still the lead car when contact was made.