2017 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg 7-9 Jul

[motobaleno]

Radio five live reported from the Ferrari pit "Ferrari haven't broken any rules, but have had to remove oil auxillary lines from the second oil tank to the PU". We might get more information on sky or ch4 if that is the case.

Feel like there should be more discussion around this. Is this confirmation the Ferrari were in fact burning oil? We've not really had any confirmation that Mercedes have been doing it, and no change in their Q3 pace either that might suggest it.

really? no change?

[TAG]

Radio five live reported from the Ferrari pit "Ferrari haven't broken any rules, but have had to remove oil auxillary lines from the second oil tank to the PU". We might get more information on sky or ch4 if that is the case.

Feel like there should be more discussion around this. Is this confirmation the Ferrari were in fact burning oil? We've not really had any confirmation that Mercedes have been doing it, and no change in their Q3 pace either that might suggest it.

There has, it just doesn't sit well with a lot of people, plausible deniability. Ferrari let go their chief engine designer Lorenzo Sassi. Wherether or not it means something, who knows. Personally I've been very keen on keeping an eye on the qualifying performance of the red cars this weekend.

[Phil]

Radio five live reported from the Ferrari pit "Ferrari haven't broken any rules, but have had to remove oil auxillary lines from the second oil tank to the PU". We might get more information on sky or ch4 if that is the case.

Feel like there should be more discussion around this. Is this confirmation the Ferrari were in fact burning oil? We've not really had any confirmation that Mercedes have been doing it, and no change in their Q3 pace either that might suggest it.

really? no change?

No.

The story goes (according to AMuS who picked up on it), it was Ferrari who inquired last winter about if two different oils could be used. The most recent clarification that no 2nd oil is allowed to be used was triggered by Mercedes who got wind that Ferrari had a second oiltank in the car.

Link here:
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 08261.html

There is also the part where apparently the FIA took samples in Montreal to check for excessive residue. Apparently, one team was found to have large amounts of [oil] residue. The FIA however refused to comment on this story/rumor.

I already did a rough translation of the above AMuS article, I think either in the Ferrari topic, the Mercedes-team one or Baku (not sure anymore and I am too lazy to dig it up).

[motobaleno]

Feel like there should be more discussion around this. Is this confirmation the Ferrari were in fact burning oil? We've not really had any confirmation that Mercedes have been doing it, and no change in their Q3 pace either that might suggest it.

really? no change?

No.

The story goes (according to AMuS who picked up on it), it was Ferrari who inquired last winter about if two different oils could be used. The most recent clarification that no 2nd oil is allowed to be used was triggered by Mercedes who got wind that Ferrari had a second oiltank in the car.

Link here:
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 08261.html

There is also the part where apparently the FIA took samples in Montreal to check for excessive residue. Apparently, one team was found to have large amounts of [oil] residue. The FIA however refused to comment on this story/rumor.

I already did a rough translation of the above AMuS article, I think either in the Ferrari topic, the Mercedes-team one or Baku (not sure anymore and I am too lazy to dig it up).

thank you for your clarifications but my doubts referred to the claimed no-change in Q3 pace by mercedes

[Phil]

What is there to doubt?

The trend has been since the beginning of the year that Ferrari has been itching closer to Mercedes during qualifying, perhaps because they improved the performance of their PU and the Mercedes not being able to turn on the tires in some GPs. Then we hear the oil story and boom, on the first GP since (Baku), Mercedes slaughters Ferrari.

Have you seen anything to suggest that Mercedes QF performance has become less impressive?

[TAG]

thank you for your clarifications but my doubts referred to the claimed no-change in Q3 pace by mercedes

Traditionally Mercedes has turned up their PU in Q2.

[SiLo]

Feel like there should be more discussion around this. Is this confirmation the Ferrari were in fact burning oil? We've not really had any confirmation that Mercedes have been doing it, and no change in their Q3 pace either that might suggest it.

really? no change?

No.

The story goes (according to AMuS who picked up on it), it was Ferrari who inquired last winter about if two different oils could be used. The most recent clarification that no 2nd oil is allowed to be used was triggered by Mercedes who got wind that Ferrari had a second oiltank in the car.

Link here:
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 08261.html

There is also the part where apparently the FIA took samples in Montreal to check for excessive residue. Apparently, one team was found to have large amounts of [oil] residue. The FIA however refused to comment on this story/rumor.

I already did a rough translation of the above AMuS article, I think either in the Ferrari topic, the Mercedes-team one or Baku (not sure anymore and I am too lazy to dig it up).

Great little summary there, thank you for that. I think Mercedes got wrapped up in a lot of it because of the blue smoke that flows from the exhaust each time they leave the garage. Other than that, there has actually been no concrete evidence that they have been doing anything wrong.

[ferkan]

Ferrari had no oil auxillary in Canada either.

[Santozini]

Ferrari had no oil auxillary in Canada either.

Correct, and according to Toto, the merc guys started scratching their heads when they saw that the ferraris were gaining on the straights during qualy

[TAG]

The it's unclear when Mercdedes "saw" the secondary tank. Ted Kravits reported that they'd seen it, but didn't specify when. He mentioned it in Baku on his post qualifying talk.

[siskue2005]

Ferrari had no oil auxillary in Canada either.

Correct, and according to Toto, the merc guys started scratching their heads when they saw that the ferraris were gaining on the straights during qualy

the gaining on straight has no direct relevance to PU. it could be due to Ferrari running lower downforce or Merc running more higher downforce.
But overall Lewis was 0.4 sec faster in Canada....it is a compramise to get a good lap.

[drunkf1fan]

The it's unclear when Mercdedes "saw" the secondary tank. Ted Kravits reported that they'd seen it, but didn't specify when. He mentioned it in Baku on his post qualifying talk.

Horner mentioned something along the lines of, Merc got someone in from Ferrari and not long after asked the FIA to clarify some rules on oil burning. Now there are two real options there, Merc knew Ferrari were breaking the rules and asked FIA to clarify the rules to get them to look at Ferrari closer and stop them, or they genuinely weren't sure and wanted it clarified so if the FIA said it was ok then Merc could gain by doing the same thing, though it was win/win there if Merc weren't oil burning and Ferrari were, because either Merc add that and gain time or Ferrari lose it and lose time.

Horner's initial stance on it was Merc are oil burning, but now he's pushing the idea Merc were behind screwing Ferrari. My guess is RBR suspected Ferrari the whole time but accused Merc for political reasons. Ferrari have the veto and they didn't want to accuse them directly, but if they accuse Merc FIA investigate everyone anyway and catch Ferrari so it works for them either way.

So I think Horner always suspected Ferrari and Allison probably told Merc what they were up to.

[Fifty]

Ferrari had no oil auxillary in Canada either.

Correct, and according to Toto, the merc guys started scratching their heads when they saw that the ferraris were gaining on the straights during qualy

the gaining on straight has no direct relevance to PU. it could be due to Ferrari running lower downforce or Merc running more higher downforce.
But overall Lewis was 0.4 sec faster in Canada....it is a compramise to get a good lap.

Tell that to the mclaren fans. They and Alonso clearly blame his top speed defecit on lack of power... and not that they consistently run more DF than just about anyone else.

(Just to be clear, I agree with you, it could just as easily be an aero (dis)advantage as it could be a power (dis)advantage)

[TAG]

Ferrari had no oil auxillary in Canada either.

Correct, and according to Toto, the merc guys started scratching their heads when they saw that the ferraris were gaining on the straights during qualy

the gaining on straight has no direct relevance to PU. it could be due to Ferrari running lower downforce or Merc running more higher downforce.
But overall Lewis was 0.4 sec faster in Canada....it is a compramise to get a good lap.

Mercedes said they were not expecting pole in Canada so it's been a bubbling topic for some time. We've had the discussion, but again it's why I'm now looking for more data points. Ferrari have been closer than ever up until Canada, then Baku so if there's a gap going forward, the circumstantial evidence begins to paint a much clearer picture. A lot happens behinds the scenes.

[AnotherAlex]

Then we hear the oil story and boom, on the first GP since (Baku), Mercedes slaughters Ferrari.

I'm sure this has been mentioned (ad nauseam), but Vettel had to use an old engine for qualifying and the race. Raikkonen matched his time in Q3 but, given that we're making assumptions, there's no reason not to believe that with the new engine Vettel wouldn't have been his usual half a second quicker, which would have put the Q3 gap to Hamilton at half a second, which is what most people would expect when Mercedes use their qualifying mode on a 'power track'.

It just looks as if Ferrari were using two oil tanks to do what Mercedes have been doing with one.

If the FIA have found significant oil residue in the exhaust of one of the teams they should say who and what action, if any, they have taken rather than add fuel to the rumours and finger pointing.