2017 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg 7-9 Jul

[Mandrake]

Valtteri Bottas was cleared of jumping the start at the Austrian Grand Prix because any movement his car made before the lights went out was within tolerance limits allowed, the FIA has revealed.

Vettel still doesn't buy it.

Do you? Looking at some images it looks like a jump start. But it resides in a gray area of the rules. So again rules where the FIA is not clear enough. Looking at the onboard, you can see it is a jump start. But the stewards deemed it legal, so ok.

So once again, when Vettel parks his car outside the gridbox, he's a genius a real competitor always looking for the loopholes...

The rose colored glasses are heavily tinted indeed.

TAG, who of us did not think it was a jump start? He went with the lights going out and that is usually a jump start by definition (in other sports anything below the human reaction time is considered a jump start). Bottas indeed moved 0.06s before the lights went out but was covered inside the grey area. Do you think Vettel knew that in all the detail after the race when he still didn't believe it? Heck, not even the moderators on various TV channels believed it wasn't a jump start? Do you think Vettel's first move after finishing is load up his smartphone, go to F1T and look through all the discussion?

This start was a one-off, not to be replicated anytime soon. No one will gamble on the start because the probability of getting it right is way too small to actually try it.

Parking outside the grid spot was a known loophole unlike the precise grey area with regards to jumpstarting which is even now after the affaire still a secret

[Chene_Mostert]

Valtteri Bottas was cleared of jumping the start at the Austrian Grand Prix because any movement his car made before the lights went out was within tolerance limits allowed, the FIA has revealed.

Vettel still doesn't buy it.

Do you? Looking at some images it looks like a jump start. But it resides in a gray area of the rules. So again rules where the FIA is not clear enough. Looking at the onboard, you can see it is a jump start. But the stewards deemed it legal, so ok.

So once again, when Vettel parks his car outside the gridbox, he's a genius a real competitor always looking for the loopholes...

The rose colored glasses are heavily tinted indeed.

"The FIA does not disclose what tolerance is allowed before it takes action"
Here in lies the problem, how do you apply this un known tolerance fairly?
With Sebastian being the BAD ass BOY of F1, would the same tolerance apply, or would the stewards make an example of him considering he is the rebel?

I am sure TAG and quite a few other forum users would be calling for at least a 3 race ban had Sebastian made the "start of his life"

[PlatinumZealot]

I saw that overtake ending in tears and i know Hamilton rathers the clutch of points than a clutch of gravel!

vettel is still due bad luck gents. Twenty points is nothing.

Its pretty funny to me to see this opinion now being the rallying cry for merc fans across the internet...
So whats the rallying cry going to be when Vettel doesnt have a penalty for a componenet change?
Another doozy is that Ferrari are not developing their car and are being blown away by mercedes
Lets review... Bottas wrecked Kimis race and vettel had a detuned pu last race and finished 4th......
This race bottas got away with one and took off into the distance only to be reeled back in for a close win...Vettel leads the drivers championship by 20 points and is going to have an engine upgrade for the brittish gp to counter the upgrade mercedes had in canada....what am i missing? Is this not the normal ebb and flow of a competitive championship?

That Spec 3 Ferrari Engine in the Haas gave us a little preview of the boost it will give the works team. I am under no illusions that Mercedes is out of the woods. A strong driver pairing; the constructors will be Mercedes.. but the little errors and reliability has cost them in the races.Do I think if Lewis has clean weekend, with the tires in range that Vettel can manage him? No not at all. Even with Bottas taking points of Lewis it means Vettel is in third place. The Q mode was our strength but not any more.

[PlatinumZealot]

Vettel said that he had no good balance in the first stint and it was way better in the second. And Bottas struggled with his tyres in the end.

Exactly, so its difficult to judge the real gap between both. I still think that Mercedes was faster but probably not so clear as we saw in the first stint.

Forgot to mention Ricciardo´s great pace. Rb seems to be closing the gap very fastly, at least if we speak about race pace.

How? And the gap was being closed in clean air!!

[Juzh]

I saw that overtake ending in tears and i know Hamilton rathers the clutch of points than a clutch of gravel!

vettel is still due bad luck gents. Twenty points is nothing.

Its pretty funny to me to see this opinion now being the rallying cry for merc fans across the internet...
So whats the rallying cry going to be when Vettel doesnt have a penalty for a componenet change?
Another doozy is that Ferrari are not developing their car and are being blown away by mercedes
Lets review... Bottas wrecked Kimis race and vettel had a detuned pu last race and finished 4th......
This race bottas got away with one and took off into the distance only to be reeled back in for a close win...Vettel leads the drivers championship by 20 points and is going to have an engine upgrade for the brittish gp to counter the upgrade mercedes had in canada....what am i missing? Is this not the normal ebb and flow of a competitive championship?

That Spec 3 Ferrari Engine in the Haas gave us a little preview of the boost it will give the works team. I am under no illusions that Mercedes is out of the woods. A strong driver pairing; the constructors will be Mercedes.. but the little errors and reliability has cost them in the races.Do I think if Lewis has clean weekend, with the tires in range that Vettel can manage him? No not at all. Even with Bottas taking points of Lewis it means Vettel is in third place. The Q mode was our strength but not any more.

SKY IT said haas was on spec 2 engine for the race itself. Actually Haas was VERY slow on the straights in austria, like really slow. Up to 15 kph slower than mercedes on just about every straight, so it's pretty amazing they managed to beat force india.

[TAG]

Ricciardo was also reporting jump start on the radio, it just wasn't broadcasted. Now go and hate him equally.

Valtteri Bottas was cleared of jumping the start at the Austrian Grand Prix because any movement his car made before the lights went out was within tolerance limits allowed, the FIA has revealed.

Vettel still doesn't buy it.

That was all before anyone really knew exactly how the fia operates in such instances. What vettel saw was what we, the viewers, saw, and that is that bottas moved while red lights were still on. It makes perfect sense why he didn't believe it just after the race.

What's the difference now with anyone knowing how the false start system works? How is what people saw when Vettel parked his car outside the box and then questions it any different? People here were calling him a genius for exploiting the rules. I love people turning themselves inside out to justify the double standards but I'm willing to give you an opportunity to explain how they're different.

[TAG]

TAG, who of us did not think it was a jump start?

I didn't, the NBCsports people commenting here in the US didn't. Then the stewards looked at it and didn't. But Vettel in the post race interviews still argues against it. Because it's what he does, he doesn't accept being beaten, just like he didn't accept that Hamilton hadn't brake checked him. It's a personality trait and as Hamilton pointed out, it's a nice achilles heel to exploit.

[Gothrek]

Valtteri Bottas was cleared of jumping the start at the Austrian Grand Prix because any movement his car made before the lights went out was within tolerance limits allowed, the FIA has revealed.

Vettel still doesn't buy it.

Do you? Looking at some images it looks like a jump start. But it resides in a gray area of the rules. So again rules where the FIA is not clear enough. Looking at the onboard, you can see it is a jump start. But the stewards deemed it legal, so ok.

So once again, when Vettel parks his car outside the gridbox, he's a genius a real competitor always looking for the loopholes...

The rose colored glasses are heavily tinted indeed.

Now that you mention it, that is the same problem, gray area in the rules, not specified enough, so we get all this strange stuff. Just difficult to explain to fans and people, don't you think? Why is that guy parked strangely? Oh well, the rules don't forbid it, but don't accept it either. Ok then... Why is there a guy starting when the lights are still red? Oh well, the rules don't forbid it, but also don't accept it. Ok, I guess...

[Gothrek]

TAG, who of us did not think it was a jump start?

I didn't, the NBCsports people commenting here in the US didn't. Then the stewards looked at it and didn't. But Vettel in the post race interviews still argues against it. Because it's what he does, he doesn't accept being beaten, just like he didn't accept that Hamilton hadn't brake checked him. It's a personality trait and as Hamilton pointed out, it's a nice achilles heel to exploit.

Ah, that explains a lot, you are US based, so you get shitty coverage. Not our fault that they don't know what a jumpstart is. The stewards couldn't act on it because it is a gray area in the rules. That doesn't mean that it isn't a jump start. Just like to have your telemetry prove Hamilton didn't break test, there is video footage where you see Bottas moving under red lights. Hence a jump start...

Here a slow motion video where you see the car starting under reds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYzquTHpa-Q

Or if you require a zoom in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tken_aR8bD8

[TAG]

TAG, who of us did not think it was a jump start?

I didn't, the NBCsports people commenting here in the US didn't. Then the stewards looked at it and didn't. But Vettel in the post race interviews still argues against it. Because it's what he does, he doesn't accept being beaten, just like he didn't accept that Hamilton hadn't brake checked him. It's a personality trait and as Hamilton pointed out, it's a nice achilles heel to exploit.

Ah, that explains a lot, you are US based, so you get shitty coverage. Not our fault that they don't know what a jumpstart is. The stewards couldn't act on it because it is a gray area in the rules. That doesn't mean that it isn't a jump start. Just like to have your telemetry prove Hamilton didn't break test, there is video footage where you see Bottas moving under red lights. Hence a jump start...

Here a slow motion video where you see the car starting under reds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYzquTHpa-Q

Or if you require a zoom in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tken_aR8bD8

Wow you guys get great tv coverage during the race, zoomed in and super duper slow mo? What I saw and the world saw was Bottas didn't leave the box until after the red lights were out. The clips showing he moved before the lights going out are nice, but as stated, Bottas was well withing the rules. Still not enough for Vettel and a lot of Vettel's fans to accept however.

It would be nice if people used the same ruler to measure things but a lot don't. The problem is even worse the the "passionate" fans.

[Chene_Mostert]

I didn't, the NBCsports people commenting here in the US didn't. Then the stewards looked at it and didn't. But Vettel in the post race interviews still argues against it. Because it's what he does, he doesn't accept being beaten, just like he didn't accept that Hamilton hadn't brake checked him. It's a personality trait and as Hamilton pointed out, it's a nice achilles heel to exploit.

Ah, that explains a lot, you are US based, so you get shitty coverage. Not our fault that they don't know what a jumpstart is. The stewards couldn't act on it because it is a gray area in the rules. That doesn't mean that it isn't a jump start. Just like to have your telemetry prove Hamilton didn't break test, there is video footage where you see Bottas moving under red lights. Hence a jump start...

Here a slow motion video where you see the car starting under reds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYzquTHpa-Q

Or if you require a zoom in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tken_aR8bD8

Wow you guys get great tv coverage during the race, zoomed in and super duper slow mo? What I saw and the world saw was Bottas didn't leave the box until after the red lights were out. The clips showing he moved before the lights going out are nice, but as stated, Bottas was well withing the rules. Still not enough for Vettel and a lot of Vettel's fans to accept however.

It would be nice if people used the same ruler to measure things but a lot don't. The problem is even worse the the "passionate" fans.

I don't think you understand very well, it's not about leaving the "box"

[TAG]

I don't think you understand very well, it's not about leaving the "box"

I think it's you that doesn't understand it very well. It's entirely about leaving the area the loop covers so as stated a little movement (which isn't disclosed) is okay. Bottas was perfect, the rules were clear and that's why the stewards came to the decision they came to. Where's the confusion?

[iotar__]

- About the non story that was Bottas's start, anyone can have a start like that and will be fine or can risk a penalty if they're too quick. "Grey area" measured in precise numbers and same for everyone, the horror.

- On the other hand: if you park a car half a width outside of a starting box, now it's a penalty but not in the past. If you want to try perfectly legal slowing down Hamilton Baku shenanigans you're free to do that according to FIA. Be warned: you risk s car in a back of yours or you may learn that not every slowing down is equal it F1. That's the difference.

After replays:
- Perez after bad start had an overlooked overtake on Hamilton and Ocon, tight line and a skilful driver
- Kvyat's penalty, amount in light of previous ones is silly, Sainz's Canada and Bahrain were considerably worse, Americans or Ecclestone it still depends on who you hit in F1.

[Gothrek]

I didn't, the NBCsports people commenting here in the US didn't. Then the stewards looked at it and didn't. But Vettel in the post race interviews still argues against it. Because it's what he does, he doesn't accept being beaten, just like he didn't accept that Hamilton hadn't brake checked him. It's a personality trait and as Hamilton pointed out, it's a nice achilles heel to exploit.

Ah, that explains a lot, you are US based, so you get shitty coverage. Not our fault that they don't know what a jumpstart is. The stewards couldn't act on it because it is a gray area in the rules. That doesn't mean that it isn't a jump start. Just like to have your telemetry prove Hamilton didn't break test, there is video footage where you see Bottas moving under red lights. Hence a jump start...

Here a slow motion video where you see the car starting under reds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYzquTHpa-Q

Or if you require a zoom in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tken_aR8bD8

Wow you guys get great tv coverage during the race, zoomed in and super duper slow mo? What I saw and the world saw was Bottas didn't leave the box until after the red lights were out. The clips showing he moved before the lights going out are nice, but as stated, Bottas was well withing the rules. Still not enough for Vettel and a lot of Vettel's fans to accept however.

It would be nice if people used the same ruler to measure things but a lot don't. The problem is even worse the the "passionate" fans.

Wow, you accept Hamilton Telemetry, but not cold hard video footage. It is the same. It is proof... Yet you reject one, and deny the other. How much biased/fanboy can you be?

[TAG]

Wow, you accept Hamilton Telemetry, but not cold hard video footage. It is the same. It is proof... Yet you reject one, and deny the other. How much biased/fanboy can you be?

It's the stewards telemetry that cleared Bottas of a jump start.