2017 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 27-29 October

[sosic2121]

But maybe Vettel should still be banned from F1 forever just in case.
Moving a stearing wheel during corner should not tolerated.

Can you show me where is that written? Because i can't find it on the post that i wrote till today.

I was trying to make a joke.
Sometimes there are so many "stupid" comments here.
Too biased.

For example, last race many people here thought Bottas should have been punished, when max drove him off track. Yet, this race noone thinks Max gain advantage in T1.
Vettel crashed into Hamilton on purpose, but no one thinks that about Hamilton who crashed into Verstappen at that same time. No one considered the option that when Verstappen cut off Hamilton, Hamilton lifted and this surprised sliding Vettel.

Everyone is ignoring real problems, like pushing people off track, like Vettel pushed Verstappen in T1 and it happened again countless times during the race.

[marvin78]

Too biased.

That's a big big problem in this forum. Real discussions are impossible.

[AMG.Tzan]

Kyvat dropped...that means Verstappen will win!

I told you that it was gonna happen!!

[Sieper]

@sosic2121

Vettel pushing Max off track T1 is just racing, Max leaving Bottas no room last week just the same.

You say you don't like bias but to me it is also very clear which racer you are biased against. We all have our viewpoints, they colour perspective.

[dans79]

Vettel pushing Max off track T1 is just racing, Max leaving Bottas no room last week just the same.

The issue is that at some point its not racing it's to much.

[Mamba]

Too biased.

That's a big big problem in this forum. Real discussions are impossible.

A big plus one on that!

I am starting to avoid race forums just because everytime I come here there are hundreds of posts bashing drivers just out of a pure dislike to that driver. Yes, I too support certain drivers more than others but at least wait till more footage is available and go over things slowly for yourself and be open minded about what you may learn before posting here - even if it means the driver you support could be in the wrong. This will at least make these threads interesting to read and proper discussions rather than mere driver bashing can take place!

Excuse the rant but has been bothering me for quite a while now.
MAMBA

[sosic2121]

@sosic2121

Vettel pushing Max off track T1 is just racing, Max leaving Bottas no room last week just the same.

You say you don't like bias but to me it is also very clear which racer you are biased against. We all have our viewpoints, they colour perspective.

I am a big fan of Ferrari, kimi and Alonso, in that order.
I really dislike FIA and Max, again in that order.

Yet I really "try" to be objective as possible.
For example, I say well done max for T1 move on Vettel. Vettel pushed him wide, and crashed into him. For me, that's not racing, that's bullying.

[Sieper]

It is bothersome, but on this forum the discussion is better then most.

Can it also be explained by the fact we don't like to read other opinions then our own? The others our coloured, not my own interpretation of course, that never!

Many of the "controversies" will be discussed because they are just that, splitting opinion.

[Sieper]

@sosic2121

Vettel pushing Max off track T1 is just racing, Max leaving Bottas no room last week just the same.

You say you don't like bias but to me it is also very clear which racer you are biased against. We all have our viewpoints, they colour perspective.

I am a big fan of Ferrari, kimi and Alonso, in that order.
I really dislike FIA and Max, again in that order.

Yet I really "try" to be objective as possible.
For example, I say well done max for T1 move on Vettel. Vettel pushed him wide, and crashed into him. For me, that's not racing, that's bullying.

That is honourable. I like the driver you dislike and it was immediatelly clear to me you dislike him from your wording, so there the bias already shows. Don't worry about that, just try to refrain from deragetory wording as much you can and you are always good.

The T1 push of Vettel didn't,t bother me at all, Fair racing, but then, after being beat I think Vettel should have applied a dash of brake before turn 2 (or steer somewhat wider) to protect his frontwing. Same like in Canada but their the majority of the forum did not agree, now more seem to do.

Just, I guess, based on the previous situation, they colour your perception.

What came next (vet ham tire slash) is also up,for discussion, I am more in the "on purpose" camp, but even I still have a little doubt myself on Yes or no tbh.

[komninosm]

So when is a door not a door?
When it's ajar.

Nobody answered me. When is a crash not a crash but a racing incident? When your front wing takes out the tire of an opponent's car and ruins his race, usually you are penalized if it's your fault, right? It doesn't matter if you meant to do it on purpose or it was an accident. It matters if it was your fault.
So answer my previous post please too:

<<<Even if Vettel didn't crash on purpose, shouldn't he be penalized for hitting two other cars anyway? And ruining another car's race? And leaving track with 4 wheels to get an advantage a couple of times during the race?
I mean back a few years ago when he T-boned Button's car he didn't mean to do that, he lost control, but took Button out all the same and he was punished. He was driving a Red Bull at the time not a Ferrari though.
What gives?>>>

[sosic2121]

Well, I can agree about anything except this "slash tires on purpose" part. Not only about Vettel. For me, unthinkable.

For me, biggest issue is inconsistencies with rules. If rules were clear and same for all, I think we would have much better racing and best drivers would shine.

[Sieper]

@komninosm, What gives? Tough one, probably a penalty was called for, especially If one feels it is on purpose. Otoh, he lost his last "chance", but Yes, real damaged happened there, Hamilton was ruined so a punishment was probably inescapable.

The four wheels of the track argument to me is a non issue, I actually feel Massa was overly aggresive there. My dad was watching with me, a casual onlooker, and he laughed when Massa steered into Vettel an extra bit when Vettel was already almost completely off the track.

[Sieper]

But the rules are clear, it is just almost unmanagable to,enforce them quickly and fairly. And many rules we bent, and have been bending for a long time. To me that makes for better racing. Sometimes it is gut wrenching, butbthat I must then also accept.

[cooken]

Apologies if I just missed it, but was the Vettel-Massa even investigated? I'm inclined to say racing incident and no penalty either way... but then there was a very similar one between two others (can't recall who) and a 5s penalty was given. How does one warrant a penalty and the other not even an investigation?? I was annoyed and frustrated by this the whole rest of the race.

[Jolle]

To me, the way Vettel handled the first few corners summed up his season. Under pressure and acting before thinking. Too eager. This I think started when he was leading the championship but knew Mercedes had the advantage. This made him take aggressive moves, risks, without always thinking ahead.
Hamilton (who had years like his in the past) “knew” the chances would come to him, not needed to force it.