2018 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, April 6-8

[bonjon1979]

Why? In both situations you push the ‘other guy’ off track.

But perhaps ‘we all’ can agree to disagree.. it is not bringing the topic any further.

I think it has something to do with the fact at the point of contact with Nico and Lewis in 2014, Nico still had a car width to the outside to move in to (in other words, at that exact point, Lewis left Nico room. Contact was avoidable)

yesterday the point of contact, lewis had his outside front wheel ON the white line.

My bad, I thought it was about the race in Austin.

https://youtu.be/bAc4s9oRT9Q

and Hamilton was also attacking from the inside..

Another one..

https://youtu.be/D7Cc7W1T2zQ

EDIT: the first one, yes Hamilton is overly aggressive but there is run off so Rosberg can get away with it. In Bahrain there was nowhere for Hamilton to go. He couldn't go on the grass without taking himself and others out.

On the second clip Hamilton is ahead before they turn in for the corner. There's also tarmac run off so Rosberg can go wide. I say again, in Bahrain Hamilton was ahead going into the corner, verstappen then won the corner fair and square, Hamilton backed out but then verstappen straightened the wheel. Hamilton can't disappear. He also can't go on to the grass, if there was tarmac I'm sure he would've turned away to preserve himself. I think the stewards were right not to take any action but I'm not sure they would've been as forgiven had verstappen taken Hamilton . He quite clearly ruined his race with a silly move. I somewhat doubt he'll have learned his lesson though...

[bonjon1979]

Maybe Max was to aggressive but in my opinion Hamilton doesn't give him room.

Come on, watch it again from this point on.

https://youtu.be/DIm2cqy7-AI?t=1m11s

Mid corner they are completely side by side, so Max knows exactly where Lewis is. At the point of contact Max looks to be about 50cm from the white line. Its max who didnt give room, not the other way round. Max's onboard shows the contact when his car bumps in the air, as it was wheel to wheel contact which means Lewis had a large portion of his car alongside.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgT02D3L5p8

Remember ROS vs HAM Spa? Similar placement of 2 cars, here everyone said ROS needs to get out of it. Why not Hamilton this time?

Thais isn't difficult to understand. Rosberg is behind and CHOSE to try to go around the outside. It's a completely different scenario to the person behind overtaking and forcing someone wide. If that was allowed then all a following car has to d is throw it up the inside and the car on the outside has to drive off the track every time. It's startling that you think these situations are comparable.

[bonjon1979]

If one observes there, Max came in hot and if he would have taken normal line, he would have screwed Alonso, so he moved to left and hit Lewis. Max's front right wheel isn't turning right at all!

https://s18.postimg.org/v8pkp332x/image.png

https://s18.postimg.org/ihbeil10p/image.png

https://s18.postimg.org/jjll13wop/image.png

https://s18.postimg.org/7hq76txp5/image.png

https://s18.postimg.org/5d5u5oj6x/image.png

Why didn't you show the next three or four screen grabs? Is it because them you would see verstappen hands turn to the left, straightening the wheel after the corner was well and truly won?

[LM10]

I believe the final green is given when the jacks are dropped. Ferrari already had a system checking the pit lane in 2008, so I guess that is automated. The jackmen are in the best position to see wether the work on the car is completed. But I guess that is difficult with 20 people hanging over the car.

I would assume that the jack man is only looking for 4 coloured gloves around the car, unless he is told someone is working on it. His attention is otherwise up the pitlane checking the gap.

I was more talking about the rear jackman, in the past the rear jackman would check the work on the rear tires. And in the description of the original ferrari system I found jacks down was a precondition for green.

But looking at the surprised face of the rear jackman when the car drops, before the wheel has even come off, it might well be that this release has now now been coupled to the wheel guns. I guess with 2 sec pit stops there is little room for redundancies.

Anyway Ferrari got 50k fine. I hope the FIA has the courtesy to mail it to the mechanics bank account. I’d say he deserves it.

An interesting video from Marc Priestley regarding the pit stop incident of Ferrari. It's a blog video, but I attached the minute which matters to the link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKu9xOJ_vqQ#t=4m53s

[Just_a_fan]

There are harmless ways to name drivers or teams: The German, The Dutchman, The Italians, The red cars, the silver arrows, The (flying) Finns, etc etc and there are the wrong ones: The Black one, the drunk, etc etc.

If you come to Austin I'd advise you not walk around referring to Perez as "The Mexican". Here referring to "Mexican" is used a lot in a derogatorily manor and a lot of people don't take kindly to it.

"The Mexican driver" or "the Mexican driver Perez" would be ok though, wouldn't it? Or is the whole of the North American continent now populated solely by people primed to take offense at anything and everything?

[Laserguru]

I can't fathom how someone can blame Hamilton for the collision with Verstappen. Ham had no more space to the left (if you consider never used dusty/dirty kerb as space, that's on you).

The centrifugal force tends to push the cars towards the outside of the track. Ham just stood his ground and couldn't be expected to move further to the left towards out of track limits and onto a dirty kerb. While VER had more than half the track open to his right... He tried to bully Ham into submission and paid the price. Ironically, Ham had tried something similar with Nico in 2014 in more or less the same place with no collision. I guess now we know who has bigger balls between the two.

So this centrifugal force is not applicable to the car on the inside of the corner, and the car on the outside cannot slow down...

I think VER and HAM have even big balls, race craft or spatial awareness, not experience. VER is not there yet. HAM with all his experience did not back off enough, so being mature he decided not to use his wisdom. VER might have better not taken the risk, or with more precaution, but if there is a gap... so the young gun went for it. They both decided to take the challenge and play chicken. What surprises me is that HAM said he would love to race against VER, but after the very first battle he already reminds me of the great HAM vs ROS battle: HAM seems to prefer mind games above racing? Used to think it was Nico, but in hindsight not so sure anymore... Interesting to see where this battle will take them, round 2 coming up in China! To me it was a racing incident; their respective team managers and fia officials are also very clear on this. It was for both drivers a move they both would make, HAM as well as VER, nothing illegal, and it is what we are watching the races for. Qualifying is on Saturday. That there was contact was unfortunate, hence race incident. Sadly VER had to retire. Bottas would not have overtaken HAM, as we saw demonstrated on the final lap. If there is a gap... some back off.

Must say I am really positively surprised by VET this year, not by his skills which are beyond doubt but by his behaviour. As if there is no pressure and he really enjoys racing again. Did he actually listen to ALO? If he now only starts celebrating his victories in German I may even become a fan.

We are so fortunate to watch so many talented drivers on the grid this year! And as I recall, the winner is usually the one who makes the least mistakes. 3 teams on the front battle, 4 teams in the midfield battle. Game on!

[popovic94]

Come on, watch it again from this point on.

https://youtu.be/DIm2cqy7-AI?t=1m11s

Mid corner they are completely side by side, so Max knows exactly where Lewis is. At the point of contact Max looks to be about 50cm from the white line. Its max who didnt give room, not the other way round. Max's onboard shows the contact when his car bumps in the air, as it was wheel to wheel contact which means Lewis had a large portion of his car alongside.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgT02D3L5p8

Remember ROS vs HAM Spa? Similar placement of 2 cars, here everyone said ROS needs to get out of it. Why not Hamilton this time?

Thais isn't difficult to understand. Rosberg is behind and CHOSE to try to go around the outside. It's a completely different scenario to the person behind overtaking and forcing someone wide. If that was allowed then all a following car has to d is throw it up the inside and the car on the outside has to drive off the track every time. It's startling that you think these situations are comparable.

Remember Ros vs Ham Canada first corner? That was same situation Ham pushed Rosberg on grass no penalty, Ros vs Verstappen Hockenheim Rosberg got penalty, Ros vs Hamilton in Austria same situation Rosberg got penalty. Ros vs Kimi in Malaysia also got penalty. Hamilton is no nice guy but Verstappen is guilty here and if his race wasnt already ruined he would probably got 5 or 10s penalty.

[Laserguru]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgT02D3L5p8

Remember ROS vs HAM Spa? Similar placement of 2 cars, here everyone said ROS needs to get out of it. Why not Hamilton this time?

Thais isn't difficult to understand. Rosberg is behind and CHOSE to try to go around the outside. It's a completely different scenario to the person behind overtaking and forcing someone wide. If that was allowed then all a following car has to d is throw it up the inside and the car on the outside has to drive off the track every time. It's startling that you think these situations are comparable.

Remember Ros vs Ham Canada first corner? That was same situation Ham pushed Rosberg on grass no penalty, Ros vs Verstappen Hockenheim Rosberg got penalty, Ros vs Hamilton in Austria same situation Rosberg got penalty. Ros vs Kimi in Malaysia also got penalty. Hamilton is no nice guy but Verstappen is guilty here and if his race wasnt already ruined he would probably got 5 or 10s penalty.

But he did not push HAM off track... minor difference. There was contact though.

[popovic94]

Thais isn't difficult to understand. Rosberg is behind and CHOSE to try to go around the outside. It's a completely different scenario to the person behind overtaking and forcing someone wide. If that was allowed then all a following car has to d is throw it up the inside and the car on the outside has to drive off the track every time. It's startling that you think these situations are comparable.

Remember Ros vs Ham Canada first corner? That was same situation Ham pushed Rosberg on grass no penalty, Ros vs Verstappen Hockenheim Rosberg got penalty, Ros vs Hamilton in Austria same situation Rosberg got penalty. Ros vs Kimi in Malaysia also got penalty. Hamilton is no nice guy but Verstappen is guilty here and if his race wasnt already ruined he would probably got 5 or 10s penalty.

But he did not push HAM off track... minor difference. There was contact though.

Yeah no pushing, he only wanted to park his car in front of him

[garygph]

[/quote]
"The Mexican driver" or "the Mexican driver Perez" would be ok though, wouldn't it? Or is the whole of the North American continent now populated solely by people primed to take offense at anything and everything?
[/quote]
No from my experience people there are people, not everyone, here in the UK that are VERY prepared to take offense at things that I did not know existed before!

[Laserguru]

Remember Ros vs Ham Canada first corner? That was same situation Ham pushed Rosberg on grass no penalty, Ros vs Verstappen Hockenheim Rosberg got penalty, Ros vs Hamilton in Austria same situation Rosberg got penalty. Ros vs Kimi in Malaysia also got penalty. Hamilton is no nice guy but Verstappen is guilty here and if his race wasnt already ruined he would probably got 5 or 10s penalty.

But he did not push HAM off track... minor difference. There was contact though.

Yeah no pushing, he only wanted to park his car in front of him

The long wheelbase of the Merc is to blame

[dans79]

"The Mexican driver" or "the Mexican driver Perez" would be ok though, wouldn't it? Or is the whole of the North American continent now populated solely by people primed to take offense at anything and everything?

Like everything else it would depend on context.

And it's not a North American thing, I can think of several sterotypes about EU countries that will evoke hostile responses depending on the context.

[popovic94]

But he did not push HAM off track... minor difference. There was contact though.

Yeah no pushing, he only wanted to park his car in front of him

The long wheelbase of the Merc is to blame

20 push ups penalty for engineering team of Mercedes!

[langedweil]

Perez and Hartly given time penalties after the race that sens them to the bottom of the results for Perez passing Hartley on the way to the starting grid. Hartly also penalized for not passing Perez on the formation lap!! He also got 2 penalty points!!!

That’s close to insane ..
So Perez makes a fault, and because Hartley doesn’t fix Perez’s fault he gets penalized with 2 pts !??
This way no one will understand this game much longer. Plz, quit that incomprehensible rulebook fetish ...

[dans79]

But he did not push HAM off track... minor difference. There was contact though.

Watch the headlights video, Max drove Lewis so far out that he compromised his own entry to turn 2.



This is very similar to what Nico did to Max in the 2016 German grand prix. Nico got a 5 second penalty for his efforts, but if he had knocked Max out of the race the penalty would have been much more severe.