2018 French Grand Prix, Le Castellet, June 22-24

[Wynters]

So their ability earlier in the season to run more downforce but still be as fast (or faster) on the straights was down to?

Less drag?

Intriguing...

Me discounting Melbourne is even in favor of the arguments that Ferrari was having an engine advantage early season. If so, where was that advantage in Melbourne then? Let's say Bottas would have been half a second faster than the fastest Ferrari. Seems awful lot against a car with a more powerful engine, don't you think?

China would like a word

I think you've successfully established your position though. Ferrari gains/losses in performance are down to a number of factors, not least engines not losing any performance through their lifespan and Ferrari downforce not creating drag. Mercedes gains/losses in performance are down purely to the tyres.

I think we should agree to differ.
- - -
As to the race, what was Grosjean doing at the start? Just a pointless contact! He really needs to reset himself and, instead, he just keeps piling more and pressure on himself.

Vettel boxed by the Mercs (I assume in a pre-planned move) but he pulls off a classic Seb 'love tap' to deal with Bottas and then evens up his front wing by doing a karmic repetition on Grosjean. That said, it was a really solid recovery drive and he stood up and took responsiblity for the Bottas incident so fair play to him. Plenty of other drivers would find excuses for that sort of collision and I probably would have ruled it a racing incident.

And poor Sainz. Just another minute or two and VSC would have bought him enough time to finish in a very good position. Slightly worrying for the Non-Ferrari manufacturers that they have engine woes this early in the lifetime of the new units.

[RZS10]

Vettel essentially took out his second harshest WDC contender without getting any real penalty, he only lost 5 points to Hamilton, he did however cost Mercedes a 1-2 and 12 points in the WCC - and got 'rewarded' with driver of the day. The conclusion of this being that the stewards are weak and the average F1 viewer a daft halfwit.

I just don't understand why Ferrari didn't do things the Ferrari way and went for the podium instead of keeping Kimi behind Vettel.

[JonoNic]

Your boy just loses control everytime when the pressure is on and tries to take out the whole field.
He needs to get a black flag and sit at home and watch a race maybe.

Oh please. 5 second penalty was enough

It was enough in your opinion, as far as I'm concerned is should have been more, but wasn't because as usual the stewards are raging cowards. They are always lenient when it might effect the championship or race outcome.

So we both have opinions but mine is backed up the stewards.

[jz11]

Drunk comment? He was 4th on track when it happened, second after. Strong race, finally a good one for Kimi too. Any info on RICs pace?

Well, if he backed of and taken the corner as the others did, he would have been 6th or 7th.
Instead he choose to blast through that escape road and almost come out in the lead!

Which rule books says that and when was the last time it happened?

he cut one corner by 50% and the next one 100%, he almost gained a lead, backed off not to, and slotted nicely into 2nd place avoiding possible scrap in couple corners - these are facts, if you don't see it that way, you're ignorant

now that being said - there is no way to measure the effect on the race, hence no penalties by stewards

that being said - things like these are supposed to be taken care of by the track itself - it is quite stupid when you can cut couple corners and accelerate while doing that - there were no polystyrene barriers, nothing at all - smooth tarmac actually, where he gained most

got lucky and got away with it this time, and all the blame has to be put on the people that configured the track

[dans79]

Hmm... I thought Vettel might have got a harsher penalty than 5s, but clearly my opinion is in the minority. How he managed to get driver of the day is beyond me.

The way he got off from Baku last year!

Max got 10 seconds in China, and did no damage to the other car.

[dans79]

Oh please. 5 second penalty was enough

It was enough in your opinion, as far as I'm concerned is should have been more, but wasn't because as usual the stewards are raging cowards. They are always lenient when it might effect the championship or race outcome.

So we both have opinions but mine is backed up the stewards.

lol, children could do a better job at stewarding than the clowns the FIA marches out every race weekend. They take 2/3rds of the race to hand out penalties that where obvious by turn 6 of the first lap.

[dans79]

Some interesting stats compared to last year after 8 races.

2017:
Vet - 3 wins, 6 podiums, 153 points
Ham - 3 wins, 5 podiums, 139 points

2018
Ham - 3 wins, 6 podiums, 145 points
Vet - 3 wins, 4 podiums, 131 points

[maxxer]

The hate on the forum is strong. It was undoubtably a poor effort from Seb on the first corner but was it any different to Bottas at Baku or Spain last year? I don't remember penalties being given that day and incorrectly so. Vettel got a fair penalty today.

Your boy just loses control everytime when the pressure is on and tries to take out the whole field.
He needs to get a black flag and sit at home and watch a race maybe.

Oh please. 5 second penalty was enough

5 seconds was not enough as he took out a competitor and got away with it and ended infront of him.

[TwanV]

It was enough in your opinion, as far as I'm concerned is should have been more, but wasn't because as usual the stewards are raging cowards. They are always lenient when it might effect the championship or race outcome.

So we both have opinions but mine is backed up the stewards.

lol, children could do a better job at stewarding than the clowns the FIA marches out every race weekend. They take 2/3rds of the race to hand out penalties that where obvious by turn 6 of the first lap.

What's the point, 5 or 10 seconds.. The result would be the same. In the end he screwed up, recovered strongly but threw away any chance of a podium. Very awkward to have dod though, that should've been kmag, ves or ham's IMHO.

[Sierra117]

Maybe we need a stoic, computerised solution to this to get rid of all the bias; any contact that results in a car spinning out or getting damaged = fixed penalty of x seconds or places or whatever. Much like the heavily discussed yes/no decider for track limits. This way we can get rid of the endless "should/shouldn't have gotten x penalty" debates.

[dans79]

What's the point, 5 or 10 seconds..

The point is that in general penalties are a complete joke now. Pretty much everything is a slap on the wrist compared to what you are getting away with.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Well, if he backed of and taken the corner as the others did, he would have been 6th or 7th.
Instead he choose to blast through that escape road and almost come out in the lead!

Which rule books says that and when was the last time it happened?

he cut one corner by 50% and the next one 100%, he almost gained a lead, backed off not to, and slotted nicely into 2nd place avoiding possible scrap in couple corners - these are facts, if you don't see it that way, you're ignorant

now that being said - there is no way to measure the effect on the race, hence no penalties by stewards

that being said - things like these are supposed to be taken care of by the track itself - it is quite stupid when you can cut couple corners and accelerate while doing that - there were no polystyrene barriers, nothing at all - smooth tarmac actually, where he gained most

got lucky and got away with it this time, and all the blame has to be put on the people that configured the track

There has never been penalties for avoiding a crash and cutting corners, ON FIRST LAP. It will never happen either.

[MtthsMlw]

Vettel & Bottas incident aside I think the race was much better than I expected. I thought the chicane in the straight was stupid but it worked out quite well actually with overtakings taking place before it but also into turn 10 & 11.

[JonoNic]

What's the point, 5 or 10 seconds..

The point is that in general penalties are a complete joke now. Pretty much everything is a slap on the wrist compared to what you are getting away with.

You are getting petty now. You initially wanted a black flag... Who was Vettel going to hurt in this ultra safe track?

[kp4evercars]

First of all, yes, Vettel was at fault.
Secondly, 5 sec was enough in my opinion.
I believe the reasoning behind the 5 sec penalty was that the collision took out both Bottas AND Vettel. Vettel suffered significant damage to his car as well and had to fight his way back after the repairs. Had Vettel gotten through without much damage, i believe he might have penalized severely.