Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[GhostF1]

it look like we will only see the new spec 3 Honda Pu in USA at Austin Texas, with spa, Monza and the Home of Honda Suzuka all power hungry track.



http://www.f1i.com/news/313386-red-bull ... -tost.html

Great news. A couple Months delayed but it means they are taking their time.

Even if is a little disappointing not have the new spec on the toughest part of the calendar, but it will a good test to understand and see how mature the actual spec with it´s reliability and total power now that they had the time to fine tune it. If Honda end these races with no incidents or very very few, I think we can say the reliability is no longer a problem for them and searching for performance is their main goal from now on.

Agreed. And to be honest, I don't even recall the last time one of them reported no power or seeing an issue on track. I'm certain there was a small issue during practice several GP's ago, but the PU reliability has improved dramatically. The fact Gasly got through 6-7 race weekends on one unit is already an achievement. Fat chance that happening in years past. They deserve a big round of applause for their development speed for the first half of the season.

The next spec is interesting, they never gave a a debut date for Spec 3 but the fact it's relatively later than expected and focused on ERS components is interesting, maybe they're onto something as well. They seem to be tracking quite well recently.

[Thunder]

Ok friendly reminder (but patience is running low again ) that posts like "Honda brings an Update to Race X" is supposed to be in the General Honda F1 Topic, not here. I really don't get what is so hard to grasp about that.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26921

[Sasha]

Remember people was talking about Honda was using an Axial Compressor.I found a SAE paper from the 90's on how to increase power without a larger/wider compressor.They put a Axial Compressor in front of the Radial Compressor(same shaft).So the unit would stay small diameter but longer.They expected 20-30% more PR and 10-20% more power over just a Radial Compressor.Honeywell(2007) took that design and made it into a Two-Shaft(like modern Turbofan)/two-stage design.

[dren]

I remember the Honeywell compressor posted here a while back. Too bad the regulations limit it to a one stage compressor.

5.1.6 Pressure charging may only be effected by the use of a sole single stage compressor linked to a sole single stage exhaust turbine by a shaft assembly parallel to the engine crankshaft and within 25mm of the car centre plane. The shaft must be designed so as to ensure that the shaft assembly, the compressor and the turbine always rotate about a common axis and at the same angular velocity, an electrical motor generator (MGU-H) may be directly coupled to it. The shaft may not be mechanically linked to any other device.

[subcritical71]

I remember the Honeywell compressor posted here a while back. Too bad the regulations limit it to a one stage compressor.

5.1.6 Pressure charging may only be effected by the use of a sole single stage compressor linked to a sole single stage exhaust turbine by a shaft assembly parallel to the engine crankshaft and within 25mm of the car centre plane. The shaft must be designed so as to ensure that the shaft assembly, the compressor and the turbine always rotate about a common axis and at the same angular velocity, an electrical motor generator (MGU-H) may be directly coupled to it. The shaft may not be mechanically linked to any other device.

How about a mixed flow compressor? It is still single stage, but the blades are designed in a way that they combine the profile of an axial and radial compressor in a single stage. I’ve only seen papers on the concept, but they all show a higher flow and pressure ratio using the same size compressor by using this method.

Edit: here is a CAD example - http://vceng.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2 ... ture24.jpg

[HPD]

Andrew Benson has learned that the difference between the Mercedes engine and Honda's engine is only 30 hp. That is what the BBC journalist writes in the latest edition of F1 Racing.

'The Honda engine is perhaps not yet a match for the Mercedes, but insiders say that the difference is still only 30 hp and that there is still plenty of room for improvement.'

[restless]

source?

[etusch]

Andrew Benson has learned that the difference between the Mercedes engine and Honda's engine is only 30 hp. That is what the BBC journalist writes in the latest edition of F1 Racing.

'The Honda engine is perhaps not yet a match for the Mercedes, but insiders say that the difference is still only 30 hp and that there is still plenty of room for improvement.'

When we think about the engine from point of chassis which it installed by now, it is hard to believe but after we see it with redbull chassis may be we can believe that.

[HPD]

source?

https://www.f1maximaal.nl/nieuws/formul ... n-mercedes
https://www.gpfans.com/nl/artikelen/807 ... aar-30-pk/

[maguetox]

Andrew Benson has learned that the difference between the Mercedes engine and Honda's engine is only 30 hp. That is what the BBC journalist writes in the latest edition of F1 Racing.

'The Honda engine is perhaps not yet a match for the Mercedes, but insiders say that the difference is still only 30 hp and that there is still plenty of room for improvement.'

When we think about the engine from point of chassis which it installed by now, it is hard to believe but after we see it with redbull chassis may be we can believe that.

Those 30hp must be peak hp, no constant hp during the whole race,there is where Honda looks to be a little behind and on par or just above the Renault.

[henry]

When we think about the engine from point of chassis which it installed by now, it is hard to believe but after we see it with redbull chassis may be we can believe that.

Those 30hp must be peak hp, no constant hp during the whole race,there is where Honda looks to be a little behind and on par or just above the Renault.

I believe I have seen comments from Honda that suggest that when they increase ICE, direct crank, power they lose MGU-H power. This would give the situation where their peak power is close, just adding 120kW from the MGU-K, but their sustained power is lower. This happens both because the MGU-H proportion of the 120kW is lower and so the 4MJ lasts less time, and because the MGU-H is less effective in charging the ES to provide the 4MJ in the first place.

The balance between crank power and H power is important. It may be that this is the most significant difference between the power units.

[Sasha]

I remember the Honeywell compressor posted here a while back. Too bad the regulations limit it to a one stage compressor.

5.1.6 Pressure charging may only be effected by the use of a sole single stage compressor linked to a sole single stage exhaust turbine by a shaft assembly parallel to the engine crankshaft and within 25mm of the car centre plane. The shaft must be designed so as to ensure that the shaft assembly, the compressor and the turbine always rotate about a common axis and at the same angular velocity, an electrical motor generator (MGU-H) may be directly coupled to it. The shaft may not be mechanically linked to any other device.

I was told from a very good source that the 2016 Honda PU Compressor was 30 cm long but narrow.They stated it had very complex blade shapes.So that lead to the thought of it starting out as axial then turning into Radial at exit(one stage).
It is on one shaft.

[McMika98]

https://www.f1maximaal.nl/nieuws/formul ... n-mercedes
https://www.gpfans.com/nl/artikelen/807 ... aar-30-pk/

Lol. Thats clutching straws.

So a dutch website claiming BBCrap Benson sources. The guy himself hasnt posted or claimed this on any of his platform. Besides how much does he know, he does not have Honda or Toro Rosso insiders. His Mclaren insiders are prolly out already. The guy isnt switched on the technical side. Please dont lower yourself with form of Journalism that Trump remarks about.

[Snorked]

it look like we will only see the new spec 3 Honda Pu in USA at Austin Texas, with spa, Monza and the Home of Honda Suzuka all power hungry track.

Franz Tost says "In Canada we had an improvement that gave us three tenths. We will have another in America and in 2019 there will be more. I am convinced that the power unit will be very competitive," he added.

http://www.f1i.com/news/313386-red-bull ... -tost.html

Disappointing.

Didn't he mention upgrades to the battery pack, MGU H and MGU K for SPA or Monza time some months ago? I also remember him saying Honda had also started work on the next step of the ICE, so hopefully this US upgrade is only to the ICE like Canada and the hybrid will see some improvements upon the return in a few weeks.

[dren]

I remember the Honeywell compressor posted here a while back. Too bad the regulations limit it to a one stage compressor.

5.1.6 Pressure charging may only be effected by the use of a sole single stage compressor linked to a sole single stage exhaust turbine by a shaft assembly parallel to the engine crankshaft and within 25mm of the car centre plane. The shaft must be designed so as to ensure that the shaft assembly, the compressor and the turbine always rotate about a common axis and at the same angular velocity, an electrical motor generator (MGU-H) may be directly coupled to it. The shaft may not be mechanically linked to any other device.

I was told from a very good source that the 2016 Honda PU Compressor was 30 cm long but narrow.They stated it had very complex blade shapes.So that lead to the thought of it starting out as axial then turning into Radial at exit(one stage).
It is on one shaft.

Sounds like an elongated screw but axial flow.