2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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Restomaniac
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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Pyrone89 wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 23:01
Restomaniac wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 22:50
Pyrone89 wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 22:21
Can all of you please stop acting like a bunch of millenial snowflakes that are triggered by every word someone says?
Seriously? :wtf:

Like when someone rightly points out that a driver has a learning curve with regard to leading from the front as he is used to chasing? :wtf:
I was obviously referring to people going apeshit about swear words, drivers poking fun of each other and over manufacturers.

PS: for your point, I think Verstappen has had a couple of times now he dominated from the front (Mexico GP's, Malaysia, Germany 2019 second part) and also when hunted very closely (Spain 2016, Austria 2018). So it is not like he is new to it, and nor do I understand why this is brought up. Verstappen did not make a mistake, his car and pit stop strategy were simply not enough for the win today. It is not like he missed his braking point or worse and conceded the spot. Bringing this argument up implies he made a driving mistake today, which he clearly didnt.
A couple of times? A couple?

Hamilton has always been very quick but is now today probably the most complete driver on the grid due to keeping that speed and the experience of numerous situations he can call on. Verstappen is still a relative baby to F1 thus he is still learning.

I made no such implication. #-o

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Sieper
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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Polarit wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 23:02
Hamilton had a pace advantage and he was much better on his tyres on the first stint.

In the second he was getting ready for another push so the pressure inning a Verstappen would’ve been very similar and with 6 lap fresher tyres I think the result is the same.
Very similar? Hamilton was 1,5 second faster the Verstappen on the end of the 3rd stint. Restomaniac made a more accurate estimation imho.

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Sieper
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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Restomaniac wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 23:07
Pyrone89 wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 23:01
Restomaniac wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 22:50
Seriously? :wtf:

Like when someone rightly points out that a driver has a learning curve with regard to leading from the front as he is used to chasing? :wtf:
I was obviously referring to people going apeshit about swear words, drivers poking fun of each other and over manufacturers.

PS: for your point, I think Verstappen has had a couple of times now he dominated from the front (Mexico GP's, Malaysia, Germany 2019 second part) and also when hunted very closely (Spain 2016, Austria 2018). So it is not like he is new to it, and nor do I understand why this is brought up. Verstappen did not make a mistake, his car and pit stop strategy were simply not enough for the win today. It is not like he missed his braking point or worse and conceded the spot. Bringing this argument up implies he made a driving mistake today, which he clearly didnt.
A couple of times? A couple?

Hamilton has always been very quick but is now today probably the most complete driver on the grid due to keeping that speed and the experience of numerous situations he can call on. Verstappen is still a relative baby to F1 thus he is still learning.

I made no such implication. #-o
Yeah.... baby, nicely put. Toddler maybe better, he is 5 now in F1. Lewis is sort of an F1 teenager.

Edax
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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Pyrone89 wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 20:24
Edax wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 20:21
turbof1 wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 19:45

What I would give for some people on this forums to do just the same. It'd be paradise in hell.

Bro-hug, people.
Think I skip the hugging part :D , but I agree, with racing like this who even cares who won.

Perhaps in 20 years you will see these races back in some documentary, and you will be bragging to some youngsters that you have seen it live.
Time traveler: you mean when 10-time WDC Verstappen battled with 10-time WDC Hamilton in Hungary?
Actually, now that Honda has caught up, I am hoping for a big 3 way fight between HAM, VET and VES. Think the way VET outfoxed LEC today shows he still may have it. And the Ferrari should be pretty decent on some of the tracks to come.

And I don’t care so much who wins it. Just seeing them battle it out in equivalent gear should be epic.

drunkf1fan
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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zac510 wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 22:33
In hindsight Hamilton probably didn't need the 2nd stop, as Verstappen's tyres still would still have wasted away under pressure from Hamilton.


Verstappen was doing roughly speaking 79.5-80 second laps from when Ham caught him on the hards till Ham caught him on the mediums. He was going the same pace the whole way and if Ham stayed out he would most likely have stayed on the 80second laps the whole way so really no, Verstappen would have had to push just as hard the whole way.

The difference may in fact be that Hamilton would have spent probably say 3-4 laps attacking, 3-4 laps break, 3-4 laps attacking, etc and in those laps Max may well have ended up off line, fighting out of corners to make sure he's ahead so putting more pressure on his tires out of the final corner rather than saving them as much as possible.

In reality Hamilton had the superior race pace, it's inane to argue if this was Hamilton driving his slower Merc better, or if his car was faster, it could be either and none of us will ever know. Just look at Bottas or Gasly's pace, both Max and Hamilton were getting far more out of their car but how much more again impossible to say.

Hamilton's laps after pitting to the hards weren't even absurdly fast laps, they were both 79.6 and 79.3 before going to a 80.2. Max did this pace almost the entire rest of that stint, it was more that Max was 2 seconds slower after his pit trying to save his tires when it was clear Hamilton was going to extend his stint. it took him absurdly long to adjust to the delta coming down that fast and the team to tell him to get a move on.

I think really it was two options, Ham stays out on hards and pressures the entire race, has tire issues himself and probably never has a massive pace difference on those tires or he pits, goes to mediums, has to make that up but if he does he'll have a huge tire/pace difference which for Hungary means if he can make the time up, makes the pass pretty much inevitable.

Think Hungary in 2014 and Ham/Alonso staying out vs Ricciardo putting on tires and being like "see ya" when he caught up to them. Though in that case Hamilton didn't have (I don't think) newer tires or obviously slightly better race pace. So I think Ham could probably have gotten it done on hards, but the pass would have been like his attempt where he ended up off track. It would have been a tough pass on someone with similar tires and a smaller advantagee and the choice to go for the huge tire advantage was the safer option.


Hamilton also opened up that strategy by being so fast and upping their pace. I believe Ant said on the radio the team told him to take it easy on the tires and catch later in the race and Ham did his blammo, why don't I just get him now tactic and caught him in 3 laps. If Ham had done what they said and maybe been doing 81-82s, then Max would been so safe on his tires at that pace. It was Hamilton going hell for leather, catching and forcing Max onto those 79 second laps over that stint that made the tires drop off and opened up the chance for the second stop to make sense.

If he was 4-5 seconds back and only doing 81s and only started catching 15 laps later the second stop wouldn't have been open. He needed to be ~20 laps to go, <1.5 seconds to Max and pushing Max into using those tires. Both his pace in the first stint while saving tires, extending the stint and forcing the pace in the second stint made that strategy work.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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Schuttelberg wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 21:52
It's his potty mouth that keeps sprouting up.
Spouting off. :wink:
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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Pyrone89
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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Restomaniac wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 23:07
Pyrone89 wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 23:01
Restomaniac wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 22:50
Seriously? :wtf:

Like when someone rightly points out that a driver has a learning curve with regard to leading from the front as he is used to chasing? :wtf:
I was obviously referring to people going apeshit about swear words, drivers poking fun of each other and over manufacturers.

PS: for your point, I think Verstappen has had a couple of times now he dominated from the front (Mexico GP's, Malaysia, Germany 2019 second part) and also when hunted very closely (Spain 2016, Austria 2018). So it is not like he is new to it, and nor do I understand why this is brought up. Verstappen did not make a mistake, his car and pit stop strategy were simply not enough for the win today. It is not like he missed his braking point or worse and conceded the spot. Bringing this argument up implies he made a driving mistake today, which he clearly didnt.
A couple of times? A couple?

Hamilton has always been very quick but is now today probably the most complete driver on the grid due to keeping that speed and the experience of numerous situations he can call on. Verstappen is still a relative baby to F1 thus he is still learning.

I made no such implication. #-o
If you bring up ‘learning’ you imply there was something he could have done , why else would he need more learning. Now what was he supposed to do differently according to you?
True GOATs don’t need the help of superior material to win.

Tom Brady, Usain Bolt are true GOATs.

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RZS10
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Joined: 07 Dec 2013, 01:23

Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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Regarding the Leclerc/Bottas incident on the first lap
https://twitter.com/F1/status/1158054851101831170

Michael Masi was quoted as saying: "What i have seen is that Bottas front wing touched Leclerc's rear tyre, you can see it from the helicopter perspective."

So not "Leclerc cut across Bottas taking off part of his front wing" but "Bottas touched Leclerc" - he's not necessarily saying it was Bottas fault but still seeing things the wrong way around.

He further said that he's convinced that the onboard from Vettel's car is misleading.

I agree with the statement that the relative movement of cars can lead to a wrong perception of who was going where (remember Vettel/Stroll after the race in Malaysia?) but even from the heli cam it's very obvious that it's Leclerc who moved across completely unnecessarily with Bottas keeping the same distance to the left border of the track
Image

Masi has a very skewed perception, it seems ...

And this isn't the only thing he recently said that is a bit baffling:

Several drivers complained about the state of the track in Hockenheim (calling the runoff area dumb, not up to F1 standards etc) - Masi insisted that there was no difference in grip levels to any other part of the track and that it was "fine" (which was visibly nonsense)

Several drivers and teams complained about the non penalty for the unsafe release of Leclerc, Masi insisted they did not set a dangerous precedent, shortly afterwards in the team meeting they decided to penalize the drivers from now on (again proving that he was wrong)

I won't say he's not up to the task but a Charlie Whiting he is definitely not.

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Pyrone89
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Joined: 05 Jul 2019, 21:44

Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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RZS10 wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 23:37
Regarding the Leclerc/Bottas incident on the first lap
https://twitter.com/F1/status/1158054851101831170

Michael Masi was quoted as saying: "What i have seen is that Bottas front wing touched Leclerc's rear tyre, you can see it from the helicopter perspective."

So not "Leclerc cut across Bottas taking off part of his front wing" but "Bottas touched Leclerc" - he's not necessarily saying it was Bottas fault but still seeing things the wrong way around.

He further said that he's convinced that the onboard from Vettel's car is misleading.

I agree with the statement that the relative movement of cars can lead to a wrong perception of who was going where (remember Vettel/Stroll after the race in Malaysia?) but even from the heli cam it's very obvious that it's Leclerc who moved across completely unnecessarily with Bottas keeping the same distance to the left border of the track
https://i.imgur.com/u3WBlYl.png

Masi has a very skewed perception, it seems ...

And this isn't the only thing he recently said that is a bit baffling:

Several drivers complained about the state of the track in Hockenheim (calling the runoff area dumb, not up to F1 standards etc) - Masi insisted that there was no difference in grip levels to any other part of the track and that it was "fine" (which was visibly nonsense)

Several drivers and teams complained about the non penalty for the unsafe release of Leclerc, Masi insisted they did not set a dangerous precedent, shortly afterwards in the team meeting they decided to penalize the drivers from now on (again proving that he was wrong)

I won't say he's not up to the task but a Charlie Whiting he is definitely not.
It was a disgraceful move by LEC on a straight (!!) which I feel warranted a drive through penalty because it didnt really happen when battling (this was just a jerk to the left).

This is the second time the FIA is extremely kind to LEC and I feel the ‘nice well mannered boy next door’ facade is fading and we are seeing the true LEC who himself screams over the radio when someone races HIM hard for a change.
True GOATs don’t need the help of superior material to win.

Tom Brady, Usain Bolt are true GOATs.

Jolle
Jolle
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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People forget, looking at the numbers, that Hamilton is having one of this most dominating seasons. Eight wins out of twelve races (his best was seven of the first twelve in 2015) and almost the most points he ever had at this point (two points behind on 2015) and by far the biggest points lead before the summer break (53 was his next best year, in 2015 as well). He's been extending his championship lead for the last eight races.

Verstappen and RedBull are coming, but not just this year...

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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Zarathustra wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 17:24
GPR -A wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 17:12
Zarathustra wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 17:09

:shock: :roll:

I guess you ‘Hamboys’ are just the best, so comical..
=D>
*stirring piece cut*

As always, Red Bull optimizes their car for the fastest tyres to suit qualifying and Mercedes focuses completely on the mid-range to hardest and focuses on race.
Lol whut?!! :|

Verstappen outperformed that Red Bull so hard yesterday during qualify..

Why do you think ‘the whole world’ went over the moon by it?!

I don’t know how about you- but I am enjoying these battles between Hamilton and Verstappen.

It’s good for the sport;
but let’s not call each other ‘fags’.. between Verstappen and Hamilton, it is Verstappen who is outperforming the car.
#-o not another one of these "out performing the car" load of bs. The car will never achieve its ultimate lap time with a human at the wheel. Max may have got the car to 99% of its potential. but not over 100% like you are claiming.
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RZS10
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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Pyrone89 wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 23:43
This is the second time the FIA is extremely kind to LEC and I feel the ‘nice well mannered boy next door’ facade is fading and we are seeing the true LEC who himself screams over the radio when someone races HIM hard for a change.
It's might also be a consequence of the leniency in Austria and Silverstone after Ferrari and a lot of fans (but mainly the media) kept whining how the stewards have killed racing after Canada - will be interesting to see how/where it all ends.

I'm paraphrasing here but after Austria Leclerc said that it's apparent you can drive dirty and get away with it

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Zarathustra
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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NathanOlder wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 23:53
Zarathustra wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 17:24
GPR -A wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 17:12
*stirring piece cut*

As always, Red Bull optimizes their car for the fastest tyres to suit qualifying and Mercedes focuses completely on the mid-range to hardest and focuses on race.
Lol whut?!! :|

Verstappen outperformed that Red Bull so hard yesterday during qualify..

Why do you think ‘the whole world’ went over the moon by it?!

I don’t know how about you- but I am enjoying these battles between Hamilton and Verstappen.

It’s good for the sport;
but let’s not call each other ‘fags’.. between Verstappen and Hamilton, it is Verstappen who is outperforming the car.
#-o not another one of these "out performing the car" load of bs. The car will never achieve its ultimate lap time with a human at the wheel. Max may have got the car to 99% of its potential. but not over 100% like you are claiming.
How would you describe it if any driver sets a quali time- not possible to replicate in the sims.. or what they thought was even possible?

Jolle
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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RZS10 wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 23:55
Pyrone89 wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 23:43
This is the second time the FIA is extremely kind to LEC and I feel the ‘nice well mannered boy next door’ facade is fading and we are seeing the true LEC who himself screams over the radio when someone races HIM hard for a change.
It's might also be a consequence of the leniency in Austria and Silverstone after Ferrari and a lot of fans (but mainly the media) kept whining how the stewards have killed racing after Canada - will be interesting to see how/where it all ends.

I'm paraphrasing here but after Austria Leclerc said that it's apparent you can drive dirty and get away with it
I think there is a fine line between dirty racing and hard racing. Hard racing is good to watch, and during the few fights Verstappen and Leclerc had this year, if felt more hard racing to me than dirty racing (fan's from both sides will probably call out the other driver for being dirty). The same kind of fine like there is between dirty racing and making mistakes (like Vettel in Canada). I presume Leclerc misjudged the distance between him and Bottas and I like it that this is seen as part of racing and nog directly given a penalty, although it was game over for Bottas.

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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The sim is not real life so its not 100% accurate. surely thats not too hard to fathom
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0
King George has arrived.

New found love for GT racing with Assetto Corsa Competizione on PS5 & PC