Ferrari F60

[tk421]

Is it really bothering you that much?
Whatever the answer, it can't possibly be that interesting.
No time to paint?
Masking design slightly from competition?
Waiting for a sponsor to confirm funds transfer before painting their logo?
They like the carbon fiber look?
Waiting for proper paint mixture in white or black? (Lighter paint being used this year)
Who cares?

I apologize for being curious. It is obviously a terrible crime. Astro, your rest is assured tonight: I will never let my curiousity get so far as to ask a question on this great website ever again.

The side you see is protected with a Carbon/Aramide fabric. The adding of the aramide gives a better abrasive resistance. Maybe they suffered from too many surface damages in the past (because of the brake dust?)

That is exactlywhat I was looking for! Thank you dedge!! The reason I asked in the first place was because it didn't look like carbon fibre, and I thought maybe they adhered something to it for some reason. I feel vindicated! Thanks dedge!

[Conceptual]

In what world is a winglet or a chimney more technologically more advanced than an entire KERS system... its funny that the same people who bemoan the loss of the aerodynamic appendages also bemoan the introduction of KERS.

KERS is the single biggest technology infusion into F1 since turbocharging, it is certainly more interesting than winglets, chimneys or viking horns.

I would rather have the KERs systems hidden from view(with full technical disclosure from each team... please max make that happen) than have all that money spent on where to put the next winglet.

Thank God, F1 is finally back on track with some true technological innovation. 2009 might be a runaway season like 1988 or 2004 but at least it will give us tech heads something to talk about other than winglets and airflow.

It isnt about a winglet or chimney being weighed on an imaginary scale against a KERS system, but it is getting to the point that the teams have given up on honestly striving to be the best and are content to settle for semi-spec constructor series. This is the start (maybe farther than that) of a decline that is leading to a dumbed down full spec with 3 or 4 areas on each car that are unique "performance differentiator".

Now unless the spec'd parts are in reality "perfect" (all teams build identical from scratch) then they are actually compromising the Formula in an elementary way. Instead of actually striving to become the first to find the "perfect" solution to the rules, they are all going to stop at like 95%, and call it a day.

That is technologically terminal. Next will be the standard drivetrain (engine, tranny, KERS), standard suspension, standard brake ducting, standard Diffusor, Standard Monocoque...etc.

At this rate of decline, the only difference between the cars on track in 2012 will be the endplates of the front wings, and the shape of the airbox opening.

It may not be over yet, but the technology in Formula 1 will NEVER reach the level of innovation that was shown from conception to 1997. The Formula is a hollow, political shell of what it once was, and THAT is real, honest, and technical racing.

After watching Speedracer 2008, I often wonder if F1 is the same behind the scenes with the fix. The worried look on Berger's face after Vettel won the GP looked as if he just got off the phone with someone that let him know that he had interfered with something much bigger than him. Who knows?

Anyways. I will catch Australia 09 and withold any final judgement until after watching the cars on track. I am NOT saying that 2009 is the year F1 died, I am saying that it cannot maintain as the Pinnacle Formula with the current direction towards cost-cutting-compromise. That is an oxymoron.

[Jersey Tom]

"Pinnacle" and "spending money inefficiently" aren't synonymous.

I think F1'09 is going to be quite good.

[ISLAMATRON]

"Pinnacle" and "spending money inefficiently" aren't synonymous.

I think F1'09 is going to be quite good.

Exactly... speding $1000 on a 1 time use wheel nut, whether or not it is the "best" is sheer stupidity, the pinnacle of stupidity... and F1 is finally realizing that.(not before we are down to 9 teams unfortunatly) When they super-regulated the aero(& engines) they got to a point where they were spending millions of dollars trying to advance 1% forward... now those same millions of dollars are making leaps & bounds in KERS technology, but because of Ferrari they are doing KERS backwards... it should be unlimited now and limited in the future. ANd when the rate of return on KERS decreases they should move on to the next high tech challenge, like HERS, or a new high effienency engine formula. But some people will allways live in the real world with a looming financial crisis and some people will live in a fantasy world of speedracer 2008.

[Conceptual]

"Pinnacle" and "spending money inefficiently" aren't synonymous.

I think F1'09 is going to be quite good.

Exactly... speding $1000 on a 1 time use wheel nut, whether or not it is the "best" is sheer stupidity, the pinnacle of stupidity... and F1 is finally realizing that.(not before we are down to 9 teams unfortunatly) When they super-regulated the aero(& engines) they got to a point where they were spending millions of dollars trying to advance 1% forward... now those same millions of dollars are making leaps & bounds in KERS technology, but because of Ferrari they are doing KERS backwards... it should be unlimited now and limited in the future. ANd when the rate of return on KERS decreases they should move on to the next high tech challenge, like HERS, or a new high effienency engine formula. But some people will allways live in the real world with a looming financial crisis and some people will live in a fantasy world of speedracer 2008.

And some people will perpetually think that they matter in life by making snide remarks about things that they are obviously incompetent about.

But enough of this. F1 2009 is what it is, but I expect more from the proclaimed pinnacle. If you don't. that is fine, but please don't say that I live in a fantasy world. Until you reach master level practitioner of quantum linguistics, please don't infer that I am the one that cannot correctly define objective reality.

[tk421]

but it is getting to the point that the teams have given up on honestly striving to be the best...

And some people will perpetually think that they matter in life by making snide remarks about things that they are obviously incompetent about.

I think you just made an example of yourself...


Anyway, isn't this the Ferrari F60 thread?

[Conceptual]

but it is getting to the point that the teams have given up on honestly striving to be the best...

And some people will perpetually think that they matter in life by making snide remarks about things that they are obviously incompetent about.

I think you just made an example of yourself...


Anyway, isn't this the Ferrari F60 thread?

It was until ISLAMATRON took the time to once again attack me for my post.

And as for me making myself the example, you are a bit out of touch as well?

[Scotracer]

"Pinnacle" and "spending money inefficiently" aren't synonymous.

I think F1'09 is going to be quite good.

Exactly... speding $1000 on a 1 time use wheel nut, whether or not it is the "best" is sheer stupidity, the pinnacle of stupidity... and F1 is finally realizing that.(not before we are down to 9 teams unfortunatly) When they super-regulated the aero(& engines) they got to a point where they were spending millions of dollars trying to advance 1% forward... now those same millions of dollars are making leaps & bounds in KERS technology, but because of Ferrari they are doing KERS backwards... it should be unlimited now and limited in the future. ANd when the rate of return on KERS decreases they should move on to the next high tech challenge, like HERS, or a new high effienency engine formula. But some people will allways live in the real world with a looming financial crisis and some people will live in a fantasy world of speedracer 2008.

And some people will perpetually think that they matter in life by making snide remarks about things that they are obviously incompetent about.

But enough of this. F1 2009 is what it is, but I expect more from the proclaimed pinnacle. If you don't. that is fine, but please don't say that I live in a fantasy world. Until you reach master level practitioner of quantum linguistics, please don't infer that I am the one that cannot correctly define objective reality.

I really don't know why you are getting all angst about this. The F60 is probably going to be faster than the F2008. Doesn't that show you that the fabled technological pinnacle was a sham, if you feel that the F60 is a major step back? We've known (well I have at least) that F1 cars could go MUCH faster with lower cost and more simplicity. F1 cars are controlled to be within a certain speed and to maintain the illusion of technological superiority. FFS, a 1991 Mclaren MP4/6 is almost as fast as a 2008 F1 car. It's all a gimmick. If you haven't read the transcripts from recent FIA/FOTA meetings you wouldn't realise how they are picking and choosing so called "performance differentiators". Instead of picking on 2009 specifically for what it appears to be, pick on F1 as a whole - F1 hasn't been truly advanced for over a decade.

[tk421]

...you are a bit out of touch as well?

No, but that's so nice of you to ask.


F60 anyone? It'll be cool to compare it to the new Toyota!

[Michiba]

It appears that the F60 (as with previous ferrari's) has 'thick' edges on the radiator inlets. This is in stark contrast to the maclarens which seem to have thin/sharp edges. Is this just an optical illusion? or is the difference real? and if so, how do they compare aerodynamically?

[Jersey Tom]

If you want to make an example of pinnacle, if that means to you completely open rules and crazy development, I'd say Can Am captured that more than F1.

F1 is still the pinnacle of road course open wheel in that it is the highest level of competitiveness, with the highest stakes, the most visibility, the highest level of talent (engineers, drivers, etc), and a very rich history. There have always been rules and regulations. But the amount of money you spend doesn't necessarily make something top-level.

But I digress.

I think the Ferrari F1 2009 looks good. Took some getting used to the rear wing, but it's really not bad. I like the cleaner body lines and the big ol' slicks. Visually it's much better. I'll be very interested to see what the McLaren looks like.. I have a feeling it will be gorgeous. I also like the continuing lack of TCS. I'm not sure the racing will be better, as I still think with the current tires and ultralight cars they have become very "razor's edge" compared to cars of old. I *will* be VERY interested to see what the balance of power is between Ferrari, McLaren, and BMW!

What I really hope for are better onboards. I really like the onboard from the F60 with Felipe, the helmet cam. I also really liked the early 90's onboards with the camera more at eye level. If they have more of those scenes I'll be happy.

[jamsbong]

Despite the new aero rules, Ferrari designers make real good effort to make their car sexy. broad slick wheel on a slender long nose body. on side views, the ugly rear wings is not so obvious, and the car looks good that way.

lets hope they are as competitive as their looks.

[WhiteBlue]

....The adding of the aramide gives a better abrasive resistance. Maybe they suffered from too many surface damages in the past (because of the brake dust?)

Aramid is used to make composites tougher or more ductile as the engineers say. Carbon fiber is a very brittle material and aramid is the stuff they use for bullet proof vests. The combination of the high modulus of carbon and the high ductility of aramid gives excellent properties where impact resistance (stones, curbes, debris) is considered to be essential. The non paint I still do not understand entirely.

[Conceptual]

....The adding of the aramide gives a better abrasive resistance. Maybe they suffered from too many surface damages in the past (because of the brake dust?)

Aramid is used to make composites tougher or more ductile as the engineers say. Carbon fiber is a very brittle material and aramid is the stuff they use for bullet proof vests. The combination of the high modulus of carbon and the high ductility of aramid gives excellent properties where impact resistance (stones, curbes, debris) is considered to be essential. The non paint I still do not understand entirely.

Would stalling the air over the rough surface give any positive benefit?

By the way... Since the standard section of the wing actually generates lift, would it be plausible to put the nosehole in front of the wing struts to slow down the airflow over the center part of the wing, thus causing a high pressure area above the wing?

I will try to mock one up to show my point...

[Roland Ehnström]

I'm pretty sure that wouldn't be legal with the 2009 aero regulations.