FIA wants to ban qualifying modes in 2021

[zibby43]

An Italian journalist has indicated that Mercedes did not use their qualifying mode in Q3 today.

Edit: Welp, there seems to be some good evidence that Mercedes did use a lower qualifying mode today in Q3.

https://twitter.com/Gianludale27/status ... 01442?s=20

"Mercedes has always used strat 2 for the last part of the qualification, which is the most powerful. Today they used strat 3 for the last part of the qualification (with Bottas it's easier if you want to see). I throw it there, then free space for interpretation #SpanishGP"

https://twitter.com/AnnotatedWA/status/ ... 75041?s=20

Merc normally, for every quali sessions, runs Strat 2 for the final Q2 and all Q3 runs.

Today, Merc used Strat 3 for the final Q2 and all Q3 runs.

Oh boy.

There is no rule that Merc have to call the 'mode' the same thing all the time, its just switch positions like 'set to 11' like spinal tap

Yes, but Merc have always used Strat 2 on the final runs in Q2 and for Q3.

Today is the first time they used Strat 3. It’s not something that changes from race to race.

[Big Tea]

An Italian journalist has indicated that Mercedes did not use their qualifying mode in Q3 today.

Edit: Welp, there seems to be some good evidence that Mercedes did use a lower qualifying mode today in Q3.

https://twitter.com/Gianludale27/status ... 01442?s=20

"Mercedes has always used strat 2 for the last part of the qualification, which is the most powerful. Today they used strat 3 for the last part of the qualification (with Bottas it's easier if you want to see). I throw it there, then free space for interpretation #SpanishGP"

https://twitter.com/AnnotatedWA/status/ ... 75041?s=20

Merc normally, for every quali sessions, runs Strat 2 for the final Q2 and all Q3 runs.

Today, Merc used Strat 3 for the final Q2 and all Q3 runs.

Oh boy.

There is no rule that Merc have to call the 'mode' the same thing all the time, its just switch positions like 'set to 11' like spinal tap

Yes, but Merc have always used Strat 2 on the final runs in Q2 and for Q3.

Today is the first time they used Strat 3. It’s not something that changes from race to race.

I'm sure a couple of lines of code could give exactly the same settings on strat 3 as as was on strat 2.
Not that they would, unless to prove a point.

[zibby43]

There is no rule that Merc have to call the 'mode' the same thing all the time, its just switch positions like 'set to 11' like spinal tap

Yes, but Merc have always used Strat 2 on the final runs in Q2 and for Q3.

Today is the first time they used Strat 3. It’s not something that changes from race to race.

I'm sure a couple of lines of code could give exactly the same settings on strat 3 as as was on strat 2.
Not that they would, unless to prove a point.

I see zero reason for doing so.

Ask yourself what’s more likely:

1) Changing the meaning of Strat 2/Strat 3 for one session for the first time in years.


2) Using a lower deployment mode to test effectiveness in anticipation of a possible change on mode usage.

[Big Tea]

Yes, but Merc have always used Strat 2 on the final runs in Q2 and for Q3.

Today is the first time they used Strat 3. It’s not something that changes from race to race.

I'm sure a couple of lines of code could give exactly the same settings on strat 3 as as was on strat 2.
Not that they would, unless to prove a point.

I see zero reason for doing so.

Ask yourself what’s more likely:

1) Changing the meaning of Strat 2/Strat 3 for one session for the first time in years.


2) Using a lower deployment mode to test effectiveness in anticipation of a possible change on mode usage.

Ask yourself what’s more likely:- its More likely it is as it appears. But we have no way of knowing if they do.
Not to fox us, but the other teams and possibly FIA
As you, I do not believe they did, but would not rule out someone doing it at some time to create wrong impressions.

[zibby43]

I'm sure a couple of lines of code could give exactly the same settings on strat 3 as as was on strat 2.
Not that they would, unless to prove a point.

I see zero reason for doing so.

Ask yourself what’s more likely:

1) Changing the meaning of Strat 2/Strat 3 for one session for the first time in years.


2) Using a lower deployment mode to test effectiveness in anticipation of a possible change on mode usage.

Ask yourself what’s more likely: More likely it is as it appears. But we have no way of knowing if they do.
As you, I do not believe they did, but would not rule out someone doing it at some time to create wrong impressions.

I acknowledge that anything is possible, but I tend to rely on the preponderance of the evidence.

[Big Tea]

I see zero reason for doing so.

Ask yourself what’s more likely:

1) Changing the meaning of Strat 2/Strat 3 for one session for the first time in years.


2) Using a lower deployment mode to test effectiveness in anticipation of a possible change on mode usage.

Ask yourself what’s more likely: More likely it is as it appears. But we have no way of knowing if they do.
As you, I do not believe they did, but would not rule out someone doing it at some time to create wrong impressions.

I acknowledge that anything is possible, but I tend to rely on the preponderance of the evidence.

I love my foil hats, I have hundreds

[El Scorchio]

It would be a bit of a slap in the face for the other teams if they indeed didn't use it, which then allowed them to be more aggressive engine wise in the race, win, and then afterwards tell everyone all about it.

However, I think the Red Bull will be a serious challenge. Could be a good one.

[zibby43]

Ask yourself what’s more likely: More likely it is as it appears. But we have no way of knowing if they do.
As you, I do not believe they did, but would not rule out someone doing it at some time to create wrong impressions.

I acknowledge that anything is possible, but I tend to rely on the preponderance of the evidence.

I love my foil hats, I have hundreds

Hahaha

Keep ‘em comin. Makes the board fun.

[Hoffman900]

It appears the FIA has made the rules so complicated, that they can’t even enforce them in certain conditions (qualifying), so they are attempting to limit how the teams run their engines, which will likely lead to even further complications.

This reminds me that bad engineers usually make things more complicated than they need to be, while the good ones come up with the simplest way possible.

[zibby43]

Peter Windsor noting that the factory Mercs didn’t make their normal big jumps in the speed traps today.

[Phil]

Yes, but Merc have always used Strat 2 on the final runs in Q2 and for Q3.

Today is the first time they used Strat 3. It’s not something that changes from race to race.

To be fair, even Strat 3 is a “QF mode”. Not the crazy party mode stuff, just normal party mode if you like. If the rule were enforced, they’d be no longer allowed to use the mode they used today either.

I definitely agree though that even if Mercedes were forced to use the modes they use for racing that they will have a big advantage nonetheless.

[zibby43]

Yes, but Merc have always used Strat 2 on the final runs in Q2 and for Q3.

Today is the first time they used Strat 3. It’s not something that changes from race to race.

To be fair, even Strat 3 is a “QF mode”. Not the crazy party mode stuff, just normal party mode if you like. If the rule were enforced, they’d be no longer allowed to use the mode they used today either.

I definitely agree though that even if Mercedes were forced to use the modes they use for racing that they will have a big advantage nonetheless.

To clarify, they absolutely can use the mode they used today in the race. The distinction is, you have to use the same mode in both the qualifying and the race.

Since they also run that mode in Free Practice to do their quali simulations, they must feel it is relatively safe. Furthermore, since the engine will no longer be stressed to the maximum with the highest mode, that may then allow them the ability, in terms of PU longevity, to run that mode in the race as well.

Furthermore, if Mercedes was using this "lower" mode today, while the competition was still using their "higher" modes, then Mercedes still has margin to play with, if they want to go even lower than Strat 3.

Regardless, there is no guarantee that the rule will be enforced this year. The AMuS article posted today that the FIA may be using this as a bargaining chip re: the token system and other matters.

[djos]

Why do you keep saying they NEED to equalise the engines? What is the need?

So constructors can compete on a level playing field obviously, and engine development costs can be reduced greatly for manufacturers. V8 Supercars has operated on a fixed cumulative horsepower limit (hp integrated over rpm) with all engine parts needing to be homologated (and being open for the inspection of rival engine builders) for quite some time. It has greatly reduced costs (and the frequency of blow-ups!) compared to the days when engine builders were free to develop the small block Ford and small block Chevrolet engines for maximum horsepower.

Why don’t they just take away all engine modes and let the drivers control the car with the accelerator like they do on other series like SuperCars and NASCAR!

Indeed V8 Supercars still use cable-operated throttles (by regulation).

Because F1 is meant to be the pinnacle of technology, not historic racing.

If it is not "historic" racing, then why does F1 require hydraulic power steering by regulation, instead of the electric power steering as fitted to 99% of modern vehicles!?

Some times there can be other regulatory reasons for mandating outdated technology.

SuperCars used to have different engine maps available on the steering wheel but they banned them to stop races turning into economy runs.

[zibby43]

To help manage the pressure, teams are allowed a breather from the crankcase into the airbox,

Not anymore they're not. The vent in to the airbox was banned as part of the oil-burning clampdown.

All of them blow the crankcase vent out the back of the car now.

That’s what I was describing though (or attempting to ). Where does the oil that’s vented from the breather come from? I thought only the monitoring/amount changed, not the architecture itself.

[dans79]

It appears the FIA has made the rules so complicated, that they can’t even enforce them in certain conditions (qualifying), so they are attempting to limit how the teams run their engines, which will likely lead to even further complications.

This reminds me that bad engineers usually make things more complicated than they need to be, while the good ones come up with the simplest way possible.

This is what I teach the interns and new kids at work all the time. KISS