2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

[ENGINE TUNER]

Do you guys think that coolant is that flammable????
The rear of the car was intact without any fire. So the fire was mainly in the front.
I bet they could have some oil or even fuel inside...

The fuel tank is integral with the safety cell, it was the fuel burning. The FIA might want to think about separating the fuel cell from the cockpit/safety cell and making its connection to the safety cell a little bit weaker than the engine connection to the fuel cell. That way if there is a large contact and fire, if the car splits then the fuel cell separates from the driver safety cell.

[ENGINE TUNER]

What was inside the radiators?? Fuel, oil or both???

Oil and water/coolant

The fuel cell is part of the "chassis" that is what lit off

[search]

Any idea what Mercedes did there with Bottas? He had to pit early because of a slow puncture on his first set of Mediums - but in the end still did two stints on exactly that kind of tire, so must have used the same set again (as he only had 2 to begin with).

So did that puncture never exist at all, or did they put a patch on it for the final run?

Edit: I just checked his onboard, they only changed 3 of the 4 tires at the final stop. So there's the explanation

[Just_a_fan]

I think a lot of you guys are underestimating the heat. You still feel it in fire suits, let alone trying to breath.

I find it more incredible Romain doesn’t have lung damage from breathing. The fire suits are great, they keep your skin from burning up, but if the air is hundreds of degrees F, it does no good.

That is why I am saying we need better fire extinguishing. If Romain would have been unconscious, if he would have been stuck. The monoque went straight through the barrier, that is not a good thing but at the same time it allowed him to escape. We really somehow escaped a tragedy. But we need improved safety. This was incredible.

The only thing better is a fire truck.

Something like that, you need extinguishers to suck the oxygen out. That’s how you put fires like that out with an extinguisher.

Those things aren’t full of water.

Dry powder or aqueous film forming foam. Both work by coating the surface of the fuel and prevent oxygen getting to the fuel. The marshals on the track had one each of these. The AFFF guy didn't do too much good, the dry powder guy was the one that had the extinguisher used by the medical crew.

If you're using a 5kg dry powder extinguisher then you're not putting out more than a few litres of fuel.

[zibby43]

[mzso]

By the way. Does anyone have on-board grosjean footage. The one broadcast cut away before he even touched the barrier.

And for good reason.

Which is what? Bullsh*t?

We need better fire extinguishing too. That one guy wasn’t doing anything. The other guy created just enough space for grosjean to make his escape.

Lesson have to be learned. The angle, the barrier itself. This has to be improved. What a danger the drivers are still in.

Maybe better fire extinguishers instead of these dust sprinklers. Why not some expanding foam extinguishers.

[AMG.Tzan]

Don't want to imagine the outcome had this accident occured 5 or 10 years ago! We have seen really big accidents the last 30 years but a fireball accident with the driver trapped inside and burning alive...we haven't seen something like that since Berger Imola 1989! At first i thought Grosjean hit something and exploded...but still i can't understand what caused the fuel tank to explode! I know that the fuel tank can't even get pierced by a bullet...imagine what forces went onto it!

I don't know how Grosjean escaped such an accident...the barriers almost trapping him into the car and the marshal behind the guardrail "sleeping"...he wasn't spraying on the car while Grosjean was burning inside (maybe he was shocked)! Thankfully the medical car arrived quickly and saved Grosjean! And as the TV wasn't showing footage at first (which was so so correct, since you don't know the outcome) i was ready for the worst! Halo , the marshals, the fireproof clothing and the barrier not piercing the car saved Grosjean there!

Apart from all of that though, i have to say that this accident once again showcased Grosjean's lack of spatial awareness! That was a careless move again by him and thankfully he didn't pay the greatest price for this stupid move! This should be a career ending crash for Grosjean (yeah his F1 career is ending in 2 races), i don't think there is any point in getting back in that car! So just pack up 2 races early Romain and go home to relax with your family!

Anyway, Sainz's race was amazing and Perez's race was also going amazingly against Albon who should have easily passed Perez given Verstappen's Mercedes matching pace...but he wasn't even close and the podium came purely by luck! This 1v1 race between Perez and Albon maybe shows RB should trust Perez and give him a 1-year contract!

P.S. Why did Kyvat get a 10 second penalty for the Stroll accident?? It was Stroll not leaving any kind of room for Kyvat while knowing he was there on the inside...

[mzso]

You think you can put out 100kg of petrol with a hand held fire extinguisher? Good luck with that.

Thanks. It also helps that it's possible. The fuel is not in 50m3 puddle or something.

[smellybeard]

Dry powder or aqueous film forming foam. Both work by coating the surface of the fuel and prevent oxygen getting to the fuel. The marshals on the track had one each of these. The AFFF guy didn't do too much good, the dry powder guy was the one that had the extinguisher used by the medical crew.

If you're using a 5kg dry powder extinguisher then you're not putting out more than a few litres of fuel.

Actually, dry powder works primarily by absorbing heat and you aim it at the flames - not the base. I was surprised when I learned that. Really you need to use the powder and immediately use the foam on top to stop if flashing again. It's a very effective combination.

The guy with the fine spay approaching from behind the barrier didn't achieve much.

Methinks the main tank did rupture but the foam filling is intended to slow the flow out of a ruptured tank. Not all of the fuel went up and what did went over a period of time.

[Just_a_fan]

Powerfull sprinklers along the entire track. Or a pressurized system with hoses every 10 meters. We cannot shrug this off, it was too dangerous. Again, we escaped tragedy.

You need AFFF on a fuel fire, not water. That's a whole different level of complexity because you need water and concentrate and a mixing system. Oh and it can be toxic / corrosive.

[Hoffman900]

Concerns from my POV:

1) armco barriers. These shouldn’t be used anymore... we have 50 years of terrible crashes with them
2) the cars have too much fuel. I think fueling pit stops are safer... right now they’re like an airliner at takeoff
3) track limits at the start. You have cars way off coming back on track at speed, into cars on the actual track. This wouldn’t happen if people were getting stuck in gravel out there.

1. Some barriers are there to protect those behind them rather than those hitting them. Also, armco is supposed to progressively fail and there is a limit to how far that failure can last. The position of the barrier had caught my attention before. Thirdly, no system is perfect.

2. Yes and no. Refuelling itself is dangerous. Personally, I'd like to see a 50% decrease in weight and power in the cars. That would have helped.

3. Track limits need a reboot. See my 'red-line' idea above. Race bans for crossing them are fair and proportionate when lives are at risk.

I grew up around ye olde single seaters with metal monocoques and bag tanks hiding 12 gallons either side of the driver and I never saw a fire or an impact like that.

I’ve seen three fires like that in dirt modifieds here in the US. All were caused by a splitting fuel cell. They also hold a lot more fuel than most single seaters.

There also might be some lessons learned from Indy Car. They have as big shunts in a season as F1 might have in a decade.

Safer Barriers are a huge improvement. Look at the impacts seen in NASCAR and Indy Car into them, and drivers walk away. You also can’t spear through are submarine through them. Tire walls suck cars in and throw them back... they also catch fire and are near impossible to put out. I’ve seen a days worth of racing cancelled due to a tire fire at the track.

[Blackout]

Well, the survival cell thankfully did its job as designed
https://i.imgur.com/b48UyO5.png

The left hand fuel hatch is completely open... could explain the big fire

[Sieper]

Maybe better fire extinguishers instead of these dust sprinklers. Why not some expanding foam extinguishers.

I agree with Ricciardo. If you cannot think of a reason to not show that I cannot help you with that.

Yes a better solution, both for the guard rails as well as for the fire extinguishing. Maybe even the fuel cell.

[ENGINE TUNER]

We need better fire extinguishing too. That one guy wasn’t doing anything. The other guy created just enough space for grosjean to make his escape.

Lesson have to be learned. The angle, the barrier itself. This has to be improved. What a danger the drivers are still in.

Yes, the guy inside the barrier was ineffective, the one trackside was slow to get his fire extinguisher activated and another grossly obese one stayed close to the medical car. Thankfully grosjean did not lose consciousness or it would be far more apparent just how inept the fire marshals on scene actually were.

[ENGINE TUNER]

Obviously you never saw an f1 car crash where the tank ruptured.

You think you can put out 100kg of petrol with a hand held fire extinguisher? Good luck with that.

They aren’t using your father’s fire extinguishers. Check these pictures again, the fuel cell ruptured and got pulled with the driver’s cell

The fuel cell is by regulation part of the safety cell. It will always so with the driver. Maybe they should rethink that in light of this collision.