LOLmwillems wrote: ↑20 Dec 2020, 03:09This is probably a tomato/tomAto moment. But... One is a cost freeze, the other is a small exception to it to react to a contractual necessity on the part of one of the teams, as well as an opportunity to respond to teams who complained they didn't want to carry over their more serious flaws.
Ross Brawn:
"The problem with the freeze was that we had a team that was changing an engine, McLaren. You can't ignore that, you can't say that you can't change your engine.
"So we had to find a fair system that was going to accommodate their need to make the change.
"We also recognise that some teams may have a flaw in their car that they shouldn't have to live with for two years. The token system allows them just that little bit of scope to put right what they had wrong."
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/toke ... n/4807652/
I'm on a diet, and I'm doing well, I've lost 2 kg already. I have every intention of sticking to my diet. But my partner has come home with some donuts. I want to say no, but I can't, so I eat it. It's not part of my weight loss programme, it's my very tasty exception but I resolve to eat no more donuts!
Mclaren bought a nice donut (caramel filling, icing and nuts on the top), and then everyone else wanted one too, and then they got back on their diet.
Just an FYI, he didn't get completely "thrown out" of F1. He was still working on an advisory role even after he got assigned to Indy. McLaren probably has a lot of engineers from their Indy program who are capable of bringing knowledge to the F1 side. I don't think Ivan was assigned there for that purpose. It very well may be just because they needed Ivan's experience and expertise there, in order to bring the Indy program up to speed.
2021 is the year of the cap. He's being sent there to stay under the cap. Now what he works on over there is another story. That will be a major control issue for the FIA, how do you control a guy like that for being paid to mow your lawn, when he's actually doing F1 aero. You'd think that if they split his salary and year between Indy and F1, it would be frowned upon by FIA.
Moreso, how do they police someone, such as him, emailing an "idea" to the F1 team to "develop"?diffuser wrote: ↑20 Dec 2020, 17:562021 is the year of the cap. He's being sent there to stay under the cap. Now what he works on over there is another story. That will be a major control issue for the FIA, how do you control a guy like that for being paid to mow your lawn, when he's actually doing F1 aero. You'd think that if they split his salary and year between Indy and F1, it would be frowned upon by FIA.
And no doubt someone is going to try to eat a donut when the rest of weight watchers is not looking, hoping the scales don't find them out!diffuser wrote: ↑20 Dec 2020, 07:24LOLmwillems wrote: ↑20 Dec 2020, 03:09This is probably a tomato/tomAto moment. But... One is a cost freeze, the other is a small exception to it to react to a contractual necessity on the part of one of the teams, as well as an opportunity to respond to teams who complained they didn't want to carry over their more serious flaws.
Ross Brawn:
"The problem with the freeze was that we had a team that was changing an engine, McLaren. You can't ignore that, you can't say that you can't change your engine.
"So we had to find a fair system that was going to accommodate their need to make the change.
"We also recognise that some teams may have a flaw in their car that they shouldn't have to live with for two years. The token system allows them just that little bit of scope to put right what they had wrong."
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/toke ... n/4807652/
I'm on a diet, and I'm doing well, I've lost 2 kg already. I have every intention of sticking to my diet. But my partner has come home with some donuts. I want to say no, but I can't, so I eat it. It's not part of my weight loss programme, it's my very tasty exception but I resolve to eat no more donuts!
Mclaren bought a nice donut (caramel filling, icing and nuts on the top), and then everyone else wanted one too, and then they got back on their diet.
I don't think that idea was even considered, as when they spoke about how to police the cloning of existing cars, they had only just begun to develop the ideas around going through the history of the design development to ensure it was done in house and without too much copying.adrianjordan wrote: ↑21 Dec 2020, 03:00Moreso, how do they police someone, such as him, emailing an "idea" to the F1 team to "develop"?diffuser wrote: ↑20 Dec 2020, 17:562021 is the year of the cap. He's being sent there to stay under the cap. Now what he works on over there is another story. That will be a major control issue for the FIA, how do you control a guy like that for being paid to mow your lawn, when he's actually doing F1 aero. You'd think that if they split his salary and year between Indy and F1, it would be frowned upon by FIA.
Surely if (say) Mclaren runs an idea for something on their Road/Sport car that is relevant to a similar shape on the F1 car, and just happens not to actually be used at all because they decided not to run with that model, well, you can not unlearn things, and it can not be included in the F1 allocated time?mwillems wrote: ↑21 Dec 2020, 03:33I don't think that idea was even considered, as when they spoke about how to police the cloning of existing cars, they had only just begun to develop the ideas around going through the history of the design development to ensure it was done in house and without too much copying.adrianjordan wrote: ↑21 Dec 2020, 03:00Moreso, how do they police someone, such as him, emailing an "idea" to the F1 team to "develop"?diffuser wrote: ↑20 Dec 2020, 17:56
2021 is the year of the cap. He's being sent there to stay under the cap. Now what he works on over there is another story. That will be a major control issue for the FIA, how do you control a guy like that for being paid to mow your lawn, when he's actually doing F1 aero. You'd think that if they split his salary and year between Indy and F1, it would be frowned upon by FIA.
How do they even police the use of CFD? If for instance something is sent to be processed away from Mclarens own CFD systems, but somehow enters a development phase as a piece of inspiration from a designer, how would that be identified? Not that they will be doing that with the Indy team, but just as an example of how hard might it be to actually police the existing regs before you even discuss the new regulations.
Disgruntled employees are probably the biggest threat to those sorts of activities.
I don't imagine there would be any way for the FIA to determine anything, especially if you made a choice to blur the edges of how that information arrived, or obfuscate it entirely.Big Tea wrote: ↑21 Dec 2020, 03:48Surely if (say) Mclaren runs an idea for something on their Road/Sport car that is relevant to a similar shape on the F1 car, and just happens not to actually be used at all because they decided not to run with that model, well, you can not unlearn things, and it can not be included in the F1 allocated time?mwillems wrote: ↑21 Dec 2020, 03:33I don't think that idea was even considered, as when they spoke about how to police the cloning of existing cars, they had only just begun to develop the ideas around going through the history of the design development to ensure it was done in house and without too much copying.adrianjordan wrote: ↑21 Dec 2020, 03:00
Moreso, how do they police someone, such as him, emailing an "idea" to the F1 team to "develop"?
How do they even police the use of CFD? If for instance something is sent to be processed away from Mclarens own CFD systems, but somehow enters a development phase as a piece of inspiration from a designer, how would that be identified? Not that they will be doing that with the Indy team, but just as an example of how hard might it be to actually police the existing regs before you even discuss the new regulations.
Disgruntled employees are probably the biggest threat to those sorts of activities.
For the CFD I checked through timterweb and its seems to be quite true that checking is very thin.diffuser wrote: ↑21 Dec 2020, 04:32You wouldn't consider an e-mail, work. Suggestions aren't a big deal. They probably happen now between teams even. Some of these guys know each other and get along. It's hours of aero work, you want to prevent in this case. Just cause I don't know how they police, doesn't mean they don't.
"Please find attached to this email my suggestion for the new underfloor aero design you mentioned in passing the other day at the water cooler. It's just an idea that we've run through several evolutions in our CFD and confirmed with scale model wind tunnel time to be better than the one you have at present. Anyway, just an idea I had, that I thought you might find interesting."diffuser wrote: ↑21 Dec 2020, 04:32You wouldn't consider an e-mail, work. Suggestions aren't a big deal. They probably happen now between teams even. Some of these guys know each other and get along. It's hours of aero work, you want to prevent in this case. Just cause I don't know how they police, doesn't mean they don't.
