2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

[saviour stivala]

The Abu Dhabi stewards safety car and lapped cars between number 33 and 44 cars decisions. These decisions were all about (to let the championship contenders) race it out, obviously the losing side does not agree with the safety car being called out and neither with the overlapped cars being ordered to get out of the way of the two championship contenders. But they were fully in agreement with the decision not to order number 44 to give back the lead he stole by cutting across off-track early in the race. So what is wrong with ‘LET THEM RACE?’ Is it ‘LET THEM RACE’ only for the Mercedes team as long as they have an advantage?.

[Starkblood80]

some people say that merc was fooling all by hiding their engine performance during last eight years, as they were deep involved in arhitecture of hybrid engines, while having draft of their engine for some time, there are always more perspectives involved

Again, you are trying to justify yesterdays appalling race management by bringing up something which has absolutely nothing to do with the topic in hand.

i am just trying to say that all of you have grasped on single lap of one race, but there is more to it. whole season, whole eight seasons of merc dominance, engine controversy, secret tyre test controversy and so on. it is the way that F1 works all the time, allowing one team dominance for some time and then taking it back, with one eye closed on some events during that period. merc knows that and they accepted it, they are part of this show but it will not change anything, every single fan will look at next year tests even more, there are newspapers full of f1 in whole world right now, even samuel l jackson writes about it. merc is part of this too, they will calm down their rhethoric soon. it is the way this big machinery called F1 works.
get over it

Hilarious

[Mattyw]

I'm reading Merc can't appeal to CAS per concorde agreement so only option is appealing to the FIA Court of Appeal to find...against the FIA. Might as well save everyone the time!

As a side note, pretty bonkers if true. So if FIA does something, can't go to an independent body?

[Ryar]

I'm reading Merc can't appeal to CAS per concorde agreement so only option is appealing to the FIA Court of Appeal to find...against the FIA. Might as well save everyone the time!

As a side note, pretty bonkers if true. So if FIA does something, can't go to an independent body?

I wonder how teams signed it. Who to blame here? FIA for such a rule or teams for accepting it?

[dans79]

I'm reading Merc can't appeal to CAS per concorde agreement so only option is appealing to the FIA Court of Appeal to find...against the FIA. Might as well save everyone the time!

As a side note, pretty bonkers if true. So if FIA does something, can't go to an independent body?

The ICA is "independent" of the FIA.
https://www.fia.com/international-court-appeal

In accordance with good governance principles, the International Court of Appeal (ICA) is an independent body with its own administration detached from the main structure of the FIA

it also has the authority to go after the FIA itself.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... lean_0.pdf

Article 5.1 - Persons under the IT’s jurisdiction

The IT determines alleged infringements and offences
referred to in Article 5.2 and allegedly committed by the
following persons and organisations, whatever form they
may take:

a) FIA Members;

b) executive officers, members of commissions and presidents of commissions of the FIA;

c) all persons who, in any way whatsoever, are called upon to participate, in one way or another, in the exercise of any duties of any nature whatsoever on behalf of the FIA and/or within a body of the FIA;

d) the officers, members, or licence-holders of ASNs, or officers, members, or licence-holders of ACNs involved in motor sport;

e) officials, organisers, drivers, competitors and licence-holders;

f) persons having access to premises hosting any event that is subject to the regulations and decisions of the FIA;

g) any person who is subject to or who has agreed to be bound by the International Sporting Code and the other regulations and decisions of the FIA;

h) any person who benefits, in any manner whatsoever, from an authorisation or approval issued on behalf of or by the FIA, or who takes part in any manner whatsoever in a race, competition or other event organised, directly or indirectly, by the FIA or subject to the regulations and decisions of the FIA;

i) employees, representatives, agents and service providers of the persons listed above, irrespective of any liability of those who employ them or are represented by them, and of the possibility of prosecuting those persons or bodies. Nevertheless, members of the FIA have an exclusive competence to decide whether or not to prosecute and to impose sanctions for offences and infringements referred to in Article 5.2 on their employees, representatives, agents and service providers unless these persons, in another capacity, fall directly under the jurisdiction of the IT according to Article 5.1 d) to h).

[Mattyw]

I'm reading Merc can't appeal to CAS per concorde agreement so only option is appealing to the FIA Court of Appeal to find...against the FIA. Might as well save everyone the time!

As a side note, pretty bonkers if true. So if FIA does something, can't go to an independent body?

I wonder how teams signed it. Who to blame here? FIA for such a rule or teams for accepting it?

Yeah exactly I suppose when any team considers 'appeals' they would never contemplate appealing with the FIA as the defendant ! Although that's what you pay the lawyers to vet I guess...

[Mattyw]

I'm reading Merc can't appeal to CAS per concorde agreement so only option is appealing to the FIA Court of Appeal to find...against the FIA. Might as well save everyone the time!

As a side note, pretty bonkers if true. So if FIA does something, can't go to an independent body?

The ICA is "independent" of the FIA.
https://www.fia.com/international-court-appeal

In accordance with good governance principles, the International Court of Appeal (ICA) is an independent body with its own administration detached from the main structure of the FIA

it also has the authority to go after the FIA itself.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... lean_0.pdf

Article 5.1 - Persons under the IT’s jurisdiction

The IT determines alleged infringements and offences
referred to in Article 5.2 and allegedly committed by the
following persons and organisations, whatever form they
may take:

a) FIA Members;

b) executive officers, members of commissions and presidents of commissions of the FIA;

c) all persons who, in any way whatsoever, are called upon to participate, in one way or another, in the exercise of any duties of any nature whatsoever on behalf of the FIA and/or within a body of the FIA;

d) the officers, members, or licence-holders of ASNs, or officers, members, or licence-holders of ACNs involved in motor sport;

e) officials, organisers, drivers, competitors and licence-holders;

f) persons having access to premises hosting any event that is subject to the regulations and decisions of the FIA;

g) any person who is subject to or who has agreed to be bound by the International Sporting Code and the other regulations and decisions of the FIA;

h) any person who benefits, in any manner whatsoever, from an authorisation or approval issued on behalf of or by the FIA, or who takes part in any manner whatsoever in a race, competition or other event organised, directly or indirectly, by the FIA or subject to the regulations and decisions of the FIA;

i) employees, representatives, agents and service providers of the persons listed above, irrespective of any liability of those who employ them or are represented by them, and of the possibility of prosecuting those persons or bodies. Nevertheless, members of the FIA have an exclusive competence to decide whether or not to prosecute and to impose sanctions for offences and infringements referred to in Article 5.2 on their employees, representatives, agents and service providers unless these persons, in another capacity, fall directly under the jurisdiction of the IT according to Article 5.1 d) to h).

Ah ok, thanks. You'd love to think they are independent but still have the same 'parent' - imagine the internal pressure !

[mwillems]

I'm just going to post this here, so we can all keep things in perspective.
https://cdn.cleverism.com/wp-content/u ... 308500.png

Why be in denial when the race control actually ignore their own written rules.

I don't get this ignore it and move on, why should people move on. It was an illegal action and Merc either need to take it further or FIA need to make a statement explaining the illegal actions of their employee.

If you are mugged and robbed, do you just shrug your shoulders and move on, or do you contact the police?

You keep omitting the fact that a season is more than a single race. Lewis deserved to win this race, yes. But over the whole season there have been more disputable decisions that affected the outcome, the championship is not handed by a single event. If you are bothered by the impact of stewarding misjudgements, the only fair and unbiased option would be to review every single race, every single rulechange, by a wide team of experts, quantify the impact on scoring (as far as that is possible) and hand out the title on a rewritten scorechart. Does that seem satisfactory? The other option is to accept that in referee sports mistakes are made. Sometimes big ones and particulary sour ones, but they happen - some in your favour, others not. But yes, you will have to move on. Just investigating and 'correcting' one incident in favor of one team while leaving others unchanged is possibly more biased than not investigating any - because at that point you show you are willing to revert decisions in favor of one team but not for others. The unbiased options are accepting mistakes happen and that they can hit any team, or reviewing the entire season, which is unworkable.

Everyone makes mistakes yes, but if rules are broken in a hugely obvious manner then results are overturned in all sports.

This wasn't a mistake it was a choice to ignore the rule on unlapping and the rule on when the safety car returns - to manufacture a situation.

It was also not a stewards opinion as it has been with other incidents. This was a huge act of god by a race director. He needs to be fired and the race result reviewed. There comes a point when the breach is too big to dust under the carpet.

This is why this isn't an "incident" like in other races and cannot be treated as such.

[Tom145145]

One things for sure the FIA will not want this anywhere near a court. It not like you can just say we did it because we can and that stands. This is why I believe there will be a deal with Merc.
If it did go to court and they ruled for Merc the result could be changed, a court doesn’t care about the title decisions, drivers feelings or fan bases. Also race results have been changed retrospectively in the past, granted not with this much hanging on it. I don’t think Merc want this title anymore but need the threat of court to get what they want. It’s a risky choice for all going to court it’s out of their hands and a changed result would likely fracture the sport.

[e30ernest]

Ah ok, thanks. You'd love to think they are independent but still have the same 'parent' - imagine the internal pressure !

It's pretty much like a normal court where the court falls under the branch of the same government, but you can sue said government through that same court. In that way, this makes sense.

[Tom145145]

Jokingly…what would people like to see Masi do with the safety car next season now it has to bend to his will? I would like a see the race control message, “The Safety Car can now go to drift mode”.

[bidong]

I urge fans on both sides to stop squabbling and see the good side of the side you're not on.

Yea, no respect when you follow up the above with the below!

it was pure euphoria seeing Mr.Wolff be humiliated on world television.

[f1jcw]

I'm just going to post this here, so we can all keep things in perspective.
https://cdn.cleverism.com/wp-content/u ... 308500.png

Why be in denial when the race control actually ignore their own written rules.

I don't get this ignore it and move on, why should people move on. It was an illegal action and Merc either need to take it further or FIA need to make a statement explaining the illegal actions of their employee.

If you are mugged and robbed, do you just shrug your shoulders and move on, or do you contact the police?

You keep omitting the fact that a season is more than a single race. Lewis deserved to win this race, yes. But over the whole season there have been more disputable decisions that affected the outcome, the championship is not handed by a single event. If you are bothered by the impact of stewarding misjudgements, the only fair and unbiased option would be to review every single race, every single rulechange, by a wide team of experts, quantify the impact on scoring (as far as that is possible) and hand out the title on a rewritten scorechart. Does that seem satisfactory? The other option is to accept that in referee sports mistakes are made. Sometimes big ones and particulary sour ones, but they happen - some in your favour, others not. But yes, you will have to move on. Just investigating and 'correcting' one incident in favor of one team while leaving others unchanged is possibly more biased than not investigating any - because at that point you show you are willing to revert decisions in favor of one team but not for others. The unbiased options are accepting mistakes happen and that they can hit any team, or reviewing the entire season, which is unworkable.

I don't think you'd be saying that if Max had being on the end of this invalid decision.

[f1jcw]

Sport sometimes means that the guy you dont like wins. Sometimes, even the one who didnt deserve wins. But the inportant thing is, that it was done within the rules. If you take that away, it’s meaningless and hollow.

Incorrect penalties are given in Association Football or other sports all the time. It is extremely common.

I don't get this ignore it and move on, why should people move on. It was an illegal action and Merc either need to take it further

It makes them look like bad sports. Why are Mercedes GP so fussed?!

I'm sure your favourite football team in any type of football or cricket or basketball or field hockey team has lost due to an incorrect or contentious referee's or umpire's decision near the end of a close match. Oh well, these things happen. Nevermind, it's no bother.

Winning with an illegal assistance makes Redbull and Max fake champions.

[DChemTech]

Why be in denial when the race control actually ignore their own written rules.

I don't get this ignore it and move on, why should people move on. It was an illegal action and Merc either need to take it further or FIA need to make a statement explaining the illegal actions of their employee.

If you are mugged and robbed, do you just shrug your shoulders and move on, or do you contact the police?

You keep omitting the fact that a season is more than a single race. Lewis deserved to win this race, yes. But over the whole season there have been more disputable decisions that affected the outcome, the championship is not handed by a single event. If you are bothered by the impact of stewarding misjudgements, the only fair and unbiased option would be to review every single race, every single rulechange, by a wide team of experts, quantify the impact on scoring (as far as that is possible) and hand out the title on a rewritten scorechart. Does that seem satisfactory? The other option is to accept that in referee sports mistakes are made. Sometimes big ones and particulary sour ones, but they happen - some in your favour, others not. But yes, you will have to move on. Just investigating and 'correcting' one incident in favor of one team while leaving others unchanged is possibly more biased than not investigating any - because at that point you show you are willing to revert decisions in favor of one team but not for others. The unbiased options are accepting mistakes happen and that they can hit any team, or reviewing the entire season, which is unworkable.

I don't think you'd be saying that if Max had being on the end of this invalid decision.

Probably, you are correct, I wouldn't be saying it. Just as I fully expect Hamilton fans to argue the reverse in that case as well. We're all biased. But that doesn't change the fact that a title is won over an entire season. When I was still into soccer I have seen 'my' team lose a championship on bollocks referee decisions. And I have been pissed of and argued it's not fair. But looking back I can equally see that they would have been eliminated sooner in some cases, were the rules applied correctly consistently, because in earlier games they were favored. I have seen occasions where the referees --- up massively over the course of a single finale, but in the end, the deserved team did win in spite of everything (and that team was not the team I was cheering for - so yes, at the time I was pissed and found it unfair, but I was wrong in the latter part). --- happens.