2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

[e30ernest]

Probably, you are correct, I wouldn't be saying it. Just as I fully expect Hamilton fans to argue the reverse in that case as well. We're all biased. But that doesn't change the fact that a title is won over an entire season. When I was still into soccer I have seen 'my' team lose a championship on bollocks referee decisions. And I have been pissed of and argued it's not fair. But looking back I can equally see that they would have been eliminated sooner in some cases, were the rules applied correctly consistently, because in earlier games they were favored. I have seen occasions where the referees --- up massively over the course of a single finale, but in the end, the deserved team did win in spite of everything (and that team was not the team I was cheering for - so yes, at the time I was pissed and found it unfair, but I was wrong in the latter part). --- happens.

While I will admit I am more skewed towards Hamilton (since I want him to break Schumacher's record) me personally I'd still have the same view if the roles were reversed. While I want Hamilton to win, I do not think it should be at the sake of bending rules in this way.

So far, I am really sad for Max because I think he is a deserving champion. However, his first championship will always have a cloud over it much like how the Prost vs Senna in 89 championship did.

[DChemTech]

Probably, you are correct, I wouldn't be saying it. Just as I fully expect Hamilton fans to argue the reverse in that case as well. We're all biased. But that doesn't change the fact that a title is won over an entire season. When I was still into soccer I have seen 'my' team lose a championship on bollocks referee decisions. And I have been pissed of and argued it's not fair. But looking back I can equally see that they would have been eliminated sooner in some cases, were the rules applied correctly consistently, because in earlier games they were favored. I have seen occasions where the referees --- up massively over the course of a single finale, but in the end, the deserved team did win in spite of everything (and that team was not the team I was cheering for - so yes, at the time I was pissed and found it unfair, but I was wrong in the latter part). --- happens.

While I will admit I am more skewed towards Hamilton (since I want him to break Schumacher's record) me personally I'd still have the same view if the roles were reversed. While I want Hamilton to win, I do not think it should be at the sake of bending rules in this way.

So far, I am really sad for Max because I think he is a deserving champion. However, his first championship will always have a cloud over it much like how the Prost vs Senna in 89 championship did.

I agree in that it was the wrong decision (and have stated so), and anyway whatever the decision Masi was making, he should not have reverted it within half a lap (although I'd be masi-vely ...dissapointed... had he stuck with no overtaking of backmarkers). Lewis deserved to win the race. But things transpired as they did, and errors are made in sports. What I think is 'wrong' is the narrative that the title was handed in a singular event omitting the whole rest of the season, or that it was somehow an intentional biased decision, and that the championship has a fake winner because of it. If the incident had not happened and Lewis was crowned champion, I'd also argue that, in the end, the championship was influenced by stewarding decisions that played into Mercedes hands early season. But I don't expect myself to call Hamilton a fake champion or call for an overturn of the result because FIA decisions influenced the outcome. I'd call the championship tainted, as I do now. But it won't change the outcome.

And yeah, I want to see Hamilton with more titles than Schumacher, too. But I guess it's too late to overturn '94

[Tom145145]

Sport sometimes means that the guy you dont like wins. Sometimes, even the one who didnt deserve wins. But the inportant thing is, that it was done within the rules. If you take that away, it’s meaningless and hollow.

Incorrect penalties are given in Association Football or other sports all the time. It is extremely common.

I don't get this ignore it and move on, why should people move on. It was an illegal action and Merc either need to take it further

It makes them look like bad sports. Why are Mercedes GP so fussed?!

I'm sure your favourite football team in any type of football or cricket or basketball or field hockey team has lost due to an incorrect or contentious referee's or umpire's decision near the end of a close match. Oh well, these things happen. Nevermind, it's no bother.

Winning with an illegal assistance makes Redbull and Max fake champions.

If the penalty was given when the foul was committed at the half way line, then that is the same. There is a difference between interpreting rules/questionable decisions and changing the rules/ignoring them.
This isn’t just bad for Mercedes, this will hit others if it continues. I doubt VAG will join under these conditions.

[Gothrek]

Also a keen watcher would notice the marshalls were given the hurry up to pin up that armco.
Something was really off. The track wasnt even fully cleared and the barrier also was not repaired for safety. It stinks.

But onto the race. As what cannot be erased is the stain of this title year. It will never go away. Sad for Max that his title is stained, but he can blame his team principal and Masi for that. I think outside of Lewis haters and dutch fans everyone knows that a robbery tool place.

Saiz snatch P5 from lando in the championship.
I think it was well deserved because mclaren just ran out of steam in the last 5 races. It's really difficult to understand.
He beat leclerc as well. Leclerc who is supposed to be ferrari's #1 wonderboy got beat by the new comer! Sainz beat him on clinical driving and race management.
So i am expecting a heated battle next year between these two.
I dont know if this result was also a part of the Masi mess as i was not watching the ferraris. But Leclerc may have made too many errors this year.
Norris just lost all steam and Riciardo started to look like he was on par with him.

I think only die-hard fans of Hamilton, like yourself, will see this title as tainted. Just like some people have conspiracy theories about Glock and Interlagos in 2008. Or Vettel in 2010 on the last GP. For die-hard fans of 1 driver it is never understandable. For 90-95% of the people there is no difference.

People with less bias saw that Verstappen was the better driver over the season. A worthy WDC for Verstappen. It will not be his last either. So better get used to it.

I'm not a Hamilton fan. In fact I am an Alonso fan. Which kind of makes me Hamilton hater. Yet, I feel that Max didn't win the race. I will not say he didn't deserve the WDC, he is good enough to deserve it. He just didn't earn it on Sunday. The faster car and driver was placed by Masi into 2nd place. I guarantee you it will be remembered. In fact I bet it will matter to Max too. I bet if he ever wins another WDC, he will say so.

And on that I fully agree

[e30ernest]

I agree in that it was the wrong decision (and have stated so), and anyway whatever the decision Masi was making, he should not have reverted it within half a lap (although I'd be masi-vely ...dissapointed... had he stuck with no overtaking of backmarkers). Lewis deserved to win the race. But things transpired as they did, and errors are made in sports. What I think is 'wrong' is the narrative that the title was handed in a singular event omitting the whole rest of the season, or that it was somehow an intentional biased decision, and that the championship has a fake winner because of it. If the incident had not happened and Lewis was crowned champion, I'd also argue that, in the end, the championship was influenced by stewarding decisions that played into Mercedes hands early season. But I don't expect myself to call Hamilton a fake champion or call for an overturn of the result because FIA decisions influenced the outcome. I'd call the championship tainted, as I do now. But it won't change the outcome.

And yeah, I want to see Hamilton with more titles than Schumacher, too. But I guess it's too late to overturn '94

Yeah I do not think it was done with intent (Massi intentionally rigging the championship) too. It was a sincere effort to make the end of the season exciting, but it was done in a very ham-fisted way.

I understand where you are coming from regarding treating the season as a whole vs seeing the result of the season based on this last race. However, that's what this race was set up to be. It was marketed as such and it was treated as such. Also, since this is the last race of the season which had the 2 main rivals tied, it was the race where the winner took all and therefore had the biggest impact of the season.

[Tizz]

Toto needs a vacation I think. Congratulates Max with the championship while at the same time deploys legal action to take it away from him. It is one or the other...

[radosav]

How would you react if in near future some evidence were found that Mercedes had illegal car during some of winning seasons?
Would you accept titles stripped of Mercedes and Hamilton?
Cause you are all now in full lawyers mode, you don't even know if what FIA did was by the rules or not, you are judging FIA, Red bull, Max...
Are you willing to accept Hamilton loosing some titles in future?

[Ryar]

Toto needs a vacation I think.

Probably a really long one, like a few years. Who are some credible individuals in IENOS ranks?

[DChemTech]

Also, since this is the last race of the season which had the 2 main rivals tied, it was the race where the winner took all and therefore had the biggest impact of the season.

I have to disagree here. The fact they were tied was a result of all the events and decisions that transpired throughout the season. Had Masi been more strict on track limits in Bahrain, Max might have come in with a lead. Had there been no mid-season technical regulation changes, Max might have come in with a lead. Had a different decision been taken on how to deal with Spa, Lewis might have come in with a lead. Had the stewards been more strict in Jeddah, Lewis might have come in with a lead. And those are just stewarding decisions - then there's all the bouts of luck, good or bad strategy, that all contributed. In the end, they all weigh in as much; the championship is decided on the sum total of everything that happened in a year, and can be lost just as well in the first race as in the last. It may feel different, and the narrative around the last race may be different, but on the scoring board, all are equal. And the scoring board counts.

[Mogster]

I think only die-hard fans of Hamilton, like yourself, will see this title as tainted. Just like some people have conspiracy theories about Glock and Interlagos in 2008. Or Vettel in 2010 on the last GP. For die-hard fans of 1 driver it is never understandable. For 90-95% of the people there is no difference.

People with less bias saw that Verstappen was the better driver over the season. A worthy WDC for Verstappen. It will not be his last either. So better get used to it.

I'm not a Hamilton fan. In fact I am an Alonso fan. Which kind of makes me Hamilton hater. Yet, I feel that Max didn't win the race. I will not say he didn't deserve the WDC, he is good enough to deserve it. He just didn't earn it on Sunday. The faster car and driver was placed by Masi into 2nd place. I guarantee you it will be remembered. In fact I bet it will matter to Max too. I bet if he ever wins another WDC, he will say so.

And on that I fully agree

Yes, that about covers it. Max has said as much with his “Lewis did nothing wrong” statements. None of this is Max’s fault though.

[e30ernest]

Also, since this is the last race of the season which had the 2 main rivals tied, it was the race where the winner took all and therefore had the biggest impact of the season.

I have to disagree here. The fact they were tied was a result of all the events and decisions that transpired throughout the season. Had Masi been more strict on track limits in Bahrain, Max might have come in with a lead. Had there been no mid-season technical regulation changes, Max might have come in with a lead. Had a different decision been taken on how to deal with Spa, Lewis might have come in with a lead. Had the stewards been more strict in Jeddah, Lewis might have come in with a lead. And those are just stewarding decisions - then there's all the bouts of luck, good or bad strategy, that all contributed. In the end, they all weigh in as much; the championship is decided on the sum total of everything that happened in a year, and can be lost just as well in the first race as in the last. It may feel different, and the narrative around the last race may be different, but on the scoring board, all are equal. And the scoring board counts.

I guess the focus is here because unlike all your examples, you cannot really do anything about those now (as the time for appeals/review has come and gone). However, for this race, it is still actionable (until Thursday?) so this is where all the focus is.

But like I said, I understand your position, and I do agree with it too.

[Holm86]

Last years Masi said this after the Eifel GP, funny how his view on the sporting regulations have changed since.

A long safety car period followed, lasting five laps and sparking complaints from race leader Hamilton and second-placed Max Verstappen, who were concerned about their tyre temperature in the cold conditions.

"I just didn't understand why the safety car was out for so long," Verstappen said after the race.

"The car was cleared. I understand they want to bunch up the field, but it's pretty dangerous with these cars when the tyres are so cold."

All drivers up to Carlos Sainz Jr in fifth place had been lapped, resulting in a long train of cars being waved past and then having to unlap themselves.


Masi said that was the only reason for the length of the safety car.

"That one was the fact that we had to, there's a requirement in the sporting regulations, to wave all lapped cars past," Masi said.

"I think from that point, it was position 6 onwards that was still running.

"So 10, 11 cars, that had to unlap themselves, and therefore the safety car period was a bit longer than what we would have normally expected."

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/fia-r ... 5/4978255/

[dans79]

Toto needs a vacation I think. Congratulates Max with the championship while at the same time deploys legal action to take it away from him. It is one or the other...

As the saying goes, it's business not personal!

[Just_a_fan]

Toto needs a vacation I think. Congratulates Max with the championship while at the same time deploys legal action to take it away from him. It is one or the other...

They're not doing it to strip Max of his title, they're doing it to get rid of Masi. I think we should all applaud that as the man is not fit for purpose - his application of the rules has been so hit and miss over the last two years that even the drivers not involved in the title fight don't like him.

[DChemTech]

Toto needs a vacation I think. Congratulates Max with the championship while at the same time deploys legal action to take it away from him. It is one or the other...

They're not doing it to strip Max of his title, they're doing it to get rid of Masi. I think we should all applaud that as the man is not fit for purpose - his application of the rules has been so hit and miss over the last two years that even the drivers not involved in the title fight don't like him.

While I agree on the poor implementation this year, I do wonder how much of a difference getting rid of Masi is going to make. The main issue is that the rules are vague and do not cover many situations. As soon as the underlying problem is not fixed, ambiguity remains.