Like a golf ball... dimples better than smooth...
Like a golf ball... dimples better than smooth...
Only if the ball is spinning. Does the floor spin?
How do you know I am looking only at the renders. I am not. I have looked at lots of images of the real car and see no step in the front wing.carisi2k wrote: ↑20 Feb 2022, 04:43That is because you are looking at the renders which have what I believe to be a legal wing vs the launch car which has the step down in on the inner wing I am talking about. Since you can't post images directly using drag and drop I can not show you what I am talking about.FWandE wrote: ↑20 Feb 2022, 00:23I have seen no step on the front wing. I'm not sure about the side plate but other cars seem similar, I'd be surprised if Merc didn't get their design approved.
I'm also not sure what you are talking about on the rear wing. Perhaps you could show some photos with the the bits that concern you highlighed in some way.
As for the rear wing it is the top of the back of the wing where Mercedes, Ferrari and maybe some others have taken a little cut out of the section and straightened the endplate leaving a sharp edge. The mercedes also looks to have some serrated edges along the rear vertical section of the rear wing from almost top to the bottom.
No, but the floor doesn't have dimples either. It has a wave pattern. It's either a red herring or it is something that has a real beneficial effect in wind tunnel and/or simulation. If it is still on the car later in the season we can assume it is working. If it is changed or removed we can assume it is not.
According to the Kyle Engineers YouTube, it may be to create smaller vortices (smaller, but repeated, shedding edges), or to assist with outwash/downwash control; “without knowing what they are doing with the strakes inside the tunnel inlet and running the design through CFD, it is impossible to know what the effect (or effectiveness) of the design is”.FWandE wrote: ↑20 Feb 2022, 11:16No, but the floor doesn't have dimples either. It has a wave pattern. It's either a red herring or it is something that has a real beneficial effect in wind tunnel and/or simulation. If it is still on the car later in the season we can assume it is working. If it is changed or removed we can assume it is not.
Does anyone have new ideas about what it is doing? Is it just a way of generating vortices without breaking the rules? Or could it affect airflow in other ways?
My comment was a reply to Ryar's not yours.JPBD1990 wrote: ↑20 Feb 2022, 04:41Edit: sorry I replied to the wrong person and am too inept to work out how to delete my comment. How embarrassing for me.Just_a_fan wrote: ↑19 Feb 2022, 17:52Or they have an otherwise low drag car and so the wings aren't an issue.Ryar wrote: ↑19 Feb 2022, 17:30I got to same questions looking at the difference between Ferrari and Merc rear wings.
'Downforce at all costs' is a risky exercise now as Honda has been on par with performance and noises from Ferrari claim they have regained a lot of power. The engine power is even more skewed situation due to E10. Unless, Merc have found a miracle fountain of power that then allows them to go for 2019 philosophy of 'Downforce at all costs' . The other plausible theory could be, this is once again an old iteration of the development phase and they have another, more advanced version scheduled to come out.
Or they have just presented the car in its "it's wet for the filming day and we don't want to bend the new car" maximum downforce trim.
Or none of the teams have shown a representative car yet.
Or...
I love comments like this because what is your point? I of course acknowledge all of those things. I’m just introducing I thought an interesting hypothesis into discussion based on an analysis by a professional. Isn’t that the point of forums? To discuss things? Or is it just to say “nobody knows so why ask?” Ok my apologies I will be sure not to.
I believe it's the dimples that cause a golf ball to spin.
I think you will find that the angle and contact point of the golf club imparts the initial spin. The dimples may have an effect on maintaining the spin, but I thought their main role was to reduce drag.
FWandE wrote: ↑20 Feb 2022, 11:08How do you know I am looking only at the renders. I am not. I have looked at lots of images of the real car and see no step in the front wing.carisi2k wrote: ↑20 Feb 2022, 04:43That is because you are looking at the renders which have what I believe to be a legal wing vs the launch car which has the step down in on the inner wing I am talking about. Since you can't post images directly using drag and drop I can not show you what I am talking about.FWandE wrote: ↑20 Feb 2022, 00:23I have seen no step on the front wing. I'm not sure about the side plate but other cars seem similar, I'd be surprised if Merc didn't get their design approved.
I'm also not sure what you are talking about on the rear wing. Perhaps you could show some photos with the the bits that concern you highlighed in some way.
As for the rear wing it is the top of the back of the wing where Mercedes, Ferrari and maybe some others have taken a little cut out of the section and straightened the endplate leaving a sharp edge. The mercedes also looks to have some serrated edges along the rear vertical section of the rear wing from almost top to the bottom.
Seriously? What has spin got to do with anything here?
the simple answer is Nonim_peter wrote: ↑20 Feb 2022, 14:04Might be a stupid question. I understand the regulations are written to push dirty air above the car behind for closer racing. Will teams try any trick to push dirty air onto the following cars to gain advantage or to hamper downforce and speed of the car behind?
The dimples only work to reduce the boundary layer if the ball is rotating.Shakeman wrote: ↑20 Feb 2022, 13:07Seriously? What has spin got to do with anything here?
You understand that golf ball dimples primary purpose is drag reduction due to the effect on the boundary layer i.e reduces wake length? Spin of the ball changes the lift of the ball in a desired direction as the shape of the boundary layer is changed by the spin.
It's also about Reynolds number - golf ball = low reynolds number so viscous effects dominate - f1 car = high reynolds number so inertial effects dominate PLUS boundary layer will transition to turbulence in a fairly short distance.Stu wrote: ↑20 Feb 2022, 14:21The dimples only work to reduce the boundary layer if the ball is rotating.Shakeman wrote: ↑20 Feb 2022, 13:07Seriously? What has spin got to do with anything here?
You understand that golf ball dimples primary purpose is drag reduction due to the effect on the boundary layer i.e reduces wake length? Spin of the ball changes the lift of the ball in a desired direction as the shape of the boundary layer is changed by the spin.
Not just when spinning, just when moving. Porsche use golf ball style dinple on some of their plastic undertrays as it provides a drag benefit