2022 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Sep 02 - 04

[Sieper]

Can’t really understand why pit Russel! They should have let him defend from Verstapen and maybe Lewis could escape a bit! At least they would have got away with a 2-3!

Russel has got lucky on so many occasions this year and he’s never been truly faster than Lewis! Apart from that this is clearly Verstapen’s year….nothing seems to ever go wrong for him even with the VSC and SC! I expect him to achieve 15 wins this season and break the record!

Verstappen’s car broke down twice running second and he picked up a piece of debris running first a Silverstone absolutely killing the downforce. Nothing ever going wrong is a bit of an overstatement.

[Sieper]

This is one ot the most dominant seasons for any car. We are back to the vettel redbull days.

I'd rather say 2014-2020 ..

For that to happen we need two redbulls qualifying over a second away from the rest of the field at many occasions and both redbulls qualifying in the top 3 every race. I’d rather not.

I think Leclerc is still leading the pole count and Sainz was in the starting top 3 much more often than Perez.

To me this is another kind of domination, certainly helped by Merc not having the car and Ferrari not up to the job as a team, but it is more the sum of the parts than a car that much faster.

[Bill]

Ferrari needs to bring back the Malboro man ,these silly mistakes would not have been happening under his leadership.he was tougher and have the right balance with Binnotto focusing on engineering and him on management.

[basti313]

Can’t really understand why pit Russel!

Because he got a free pit stop?

They should have let him defend from Verstapen and maybe Lewis could escape a bit! At least they would have got away with a 2-3!

No way. With Rus not pitting they would have lost even more.
The simple strategy error was not to pit one of them at the SC deployment. I am not sure why the Merc strategy was not prepared, of course you need to prepare for SC all the time and ask the question if you pit or not. At this time the strategy team has nothing else to do...
If we listen to the team radio the team told Russel at the safety car deployment that they split the strategy and he should stay out. He questioned this several times and wanted the Soft already at the deployment.

With Ham they could have pitted him without loosing to Verstappen due to the gap with Russel. Not sure why they did not do this with Latifi in the middle that would have been easy, but Ham himself wanted to have track position...

he’s never been truly faster than Lewis!

He was.

[Juzh]

AMuS reported this morning, that Lewis has chosen the wrong motor mode for restart. (I dont want to start writing here as a basher, I just haven‘t read this information here yet) So bad luck combined with difficult tatctic…

I looked it up:
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... zandvoort/

In fact, Hamilton had to blame himself for a rookie mistake that wasn't even officially discussed. He pulled the restart far too early, giving Verstappen the perfect chance to get him out of the slipstream. Worse still, Hamilton flipped the motor mode switch the wrong way, stealing the power he needed to defend himself. This isn't the first time this has happened to him. The engineers are now puzzling how to design the mode change in such a way that errors are practically impossible.

I think this has merit. ICE modes are locked, so it could only be energy recovery/deployment. He was twice told to change mode to strat 5 just before final corner, second time just seconds before restart, so there's reason to believe he didn't make the switch, or he put it in incorrect mode. Unfortunately FOM was using backwards facing cam, so we can't see the steering wheel, however telemetry shows he was 13-14 kmh slower than Russell on the top end on the restart (286 vs 300 kmh). Slipstream accounts for a few km/h but certainly not 14 km/h.
The next lap hamilton achieved 296 km/h (ver 1.8s ahead, so not a lot of slipstream).

Still it seems strange he didn't use overtake button, which he was also advised to use on the restart. OT button I think should override any pre-selected mode, or maybe not . Would have to ask mercedes.

[mendis]

AMuS reported this morning, that Lewis has chosen the wrong motor mode for restart. (I dont want to start writing here as a basher, I just haven‘t read this information here yet) So bad luck combined with difficult tatctic…

I looked it up:
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... zandvoort/

In fact, Hamilton had to blame himself for a rookie mistake that wasn't even officially discussed. He pulled the restart far too early, giving Verstappen the perfect chance to get him out of the slipstream. Worse still, Hamilton flipped the motor mode switch the wrong way, stealing the power he needed to defend himself. This isn't the first time this has happened to him. The engineers are now puzzling how to design the mode change in such a way that errors are practically impossible.

I think this has merit. ICE modes are locked, so it could only be energy recovery/deployment. He was twice told to change mode to strat 5 just before final corner, second time just seconds before restart, so there's reason to believe he didn't make the switch, or he put it in incorrect mode. Unfortunately FOM was using backwards facing cam, so we can't see the steering wheel, however telemetry shows he was 13-14 kmh slower than Russell on the top end on the restart (286 vs 300 kmh). Slipstream accounts for a few km/h but certainly not 14 km/h.
The next lap hamilton achieved 296 km/h (ver 1.8s ahead, so not a lot of slipstream).

Still it seems strange he didn't use overtake button, which he was also advised to use on the restart. OT button I think should override any pre-selected mode, or maybe not . Would have to ask mercedes.

George was on softs, so obviously he would get a good traction and better straight line speed along with slipstream. A few kph definitely accounts for that at the restart. On the next lap, George hit 299 Vs Lewis on 296 (behind Max). Lewis lifted on straight when Max was overtaking him (more like slow to full throttle), to probably let Max overtake before the start line, and that probably is the reason for low top speed.

[Juzh]

AMuS reported this morning, that Lewis has chosen the wrong motor mode for restart. (I dont want to start writing here as a basher, I just haven‘t read this information here yet) So bad luck combined with difficult tatctic…

I looked it up:
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... zandvoort/

In fact, Hamilton had to blame himself for a rookie mistake that wasn't even officially discussed. He pulled the restart far too early, giving Verstappen the perfect chance to get him out of the slipstream. Worse still, Hamilton flipped the motor mode switch the wrong way, stealing the power he needed to defend himself. This isn't the first time this has happened to him. The engineers are now puzzling how to design the mode change in such a way that errors are practically impossible.

I think this has merit. ICE modes are locked, so it could only be energy recovery/deployment. He was twice told to change mode to strat 5 just before final corner, second time just seconds before restart, so there's reason to believe he didn't make the switch, or he put it in incorrect mode. Unfortunately FOM was using backwards facing cam, so we can't see the steering wheel, however telemetry shows he was 13-14 kmh slower than Russell on the top end on the restart (286 vs 300 kmh). Slipstream accounts for a few km/h but certainly not 14 km/h.
The next lap hamilton achieved 296 km/h (ver 1.8s ahead, so not a lot of slipstream).

Still it seems strange he didn't use overtake button, which he was also advised to use on the restart. OT button I think should override any pre-selected mode, or maybe not . Would have to ask mercedes.

George was on softs, so obviously he would get a good traction and better straight line speed along with slipstream. A few kph definitely accounts for that at the restart. On the next lap, George hit 299 Vs Lewis on 296 (behind Max).

Soft tyre is irrelevant, everyone got perfect traction because hamilton floored from ~140 km/h. Slipstream is important, but not for 14 km/h as I said, 4-5 at most from that distance. Russell actually was asleep as well at the restart and wasn't that close to anyone in front. Should have been in verstappen's tail, but instead allowed him to easily pull away.
The next lap Hamilton was way too far for any meaningful slipstream, he just put the car in the right race mode and then it was working fine again.

[mendis]

I looked it up:
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... zandvoort/

I think this has merit. ICE modes are locked, so it could only be energy recovery/deployment. He was twice told to change mode to strat 5 just before final corner, second time just seconds before restart, so there's reason to believe he didn't make the switch, or he put it in incorrect mode. Unfortunately FOM was using backwards facing cam, so we can't see the steering wheel, however telemetry shows he was 13-14 kmh slower than Russell on the top end on the restart (286 vs 300 kmh). Slipstream accounts for a few km/h but certainly not 14 km/h.
The next lap hamilton achieved 296 km/h (ver 1.8s ahead, so not a lot of slipstream).

Still it seems strange he didn't use overtake button, which he was also advised to use on the restart. OT button I think should override any pre-selected mode, or maybe not . Would have to ask mercedes.

George was on softs, so obviously he would get a good traction and better straight line speed along with slipstream. A few kph definitely accounts for that at the restart. On the next lap, George hit 299 Vs Lewis on 296 (behind Max).

Soft tyre is irrelevant, everyone got perfect traction because hamilton floored from ~140 km/h. Slipstream is important, but not for 14 km/h as I said, 4-5 at most from that distance. Russell actually was asleep as well at the restart and wasn't that close to anyone in front. Should have been in verstappen's tail, but instead allowed him to easily pull away.
The next lap Hamilton was way too far for any meaningful slipstream, he just put the car in the right race mode and then it was working fine again.

You will see Lewis wasn't full throttle (blue curve on top of green).

[Cs98]

George was on softs, so obviously he would get a good traction and better straight line speed along with slipstream. A few kph definitely accounts for that at the restart. On the next lap, George hit 299 Vs Lewis on 296 (behind Max).

Soft tyre is irrelevant, everyone got perfect traction because hamilton floored from ~140 km/h. Slipstream is important, but not for 14 km/h as I said, 4-5 at most from that distance. Russell actually was asleep as well at the restart and wasn't that close to anyone in front. Should have been in verstappen's tail, but instead allowed him to easily pull away.
The next lap Hamilton was way too far for any meaningful slipstream, he just put the car in the right race mode and then it was working fine again.

You will see Lewis wasn't full throttle (blue curve on top of green).

https://i.ibb.co/z6MGbpy/Screenshot-202 ... -basic.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/pzhnMpg/Screenshot-202 ... -basic.jpg

Lol. The throttle is the green curve. Your genius is almost... frightening.

[Juzh]

George was on softs, so obviously he would get a good traction and better straight line speed along with slipstream. A few kph definitely accounts for that at the restart. On the next lap, George hit 299 Vs Lewis on 296 (behind Max).

Soft tyre is irrelevant, everyone got perfect traction because hamilton floored from ~140 km/h. Slipstream is important, but not for 14 km/h as I said, 4-5 at most from that distance. Russell actually was asleep as well at the restart and wasn't that close to anyone in front. Should have been in verstappen's tail, but instead allowed him to easily pull away.
The next lap Hamilton was way too far for any meaningful slipstream, he just put the car in the right race mode and then it was working fine again.

You will see Lewis wasn't full throttle (blue curve on top of green).

https://i.ibb.co/z6MGbpy/Screenshot-202 ... -basic.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/pzhnMpg/Screenshot-202 ... -basic.jpg

Green is throttle and as you can see it is full (100%)-. Blue curve is speed. More easily seen from single driver layout
(random screenshot)

[mendis]

Soft tyre is irrelevant, everyone got perfect traction because hamilton floored from ~140 km/h. Slipstream is important, but not for 14 km/h as I said, 4-5 at most from that distance. Russell actually was asleep as well at the restart and wasn't that close to anyone in front. Should have been in verstappen's tail, but instead allowed him to easily pull away.
The next lap Hamilton was way too far for any meaningful slipstream, he just put the car in the right race mode and then it was working fine again.

You will see Lewis wasn't full throttle (blue curve on top of green).

https://i.ibb.co/z6MGbpy/Screenshot-202 ... -basic.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/pzhnMpg/Screenshot-202 ... -basic.jpg

Green is throttle and as you can see it is full (100%)-. Blue curve is speed. More easily seen from single driver layout
(random screenshot)
https://i.imgur.com/6KtyVKp.jpg

Gotcha! My bad.

[mendis]

Soft tyre is irrelevant, everyone got perfect traction because hamilton floored from ~140 km/h. Slipstream is important, but not for 14 km/h as I said, 4-5 at most from that distance. Russell actually was asleep as well at the restart and wasn't that close to anyone in front. Should have been in verstappen's tail, but instead allowed him to easily pull away.
The next lap Hamilton was way too far for any meaningful slipstream, he just put the car in the right race mode and then it was working fine again.

You will see Lewis wasn't full throttle (blue curve on top of green).

https://i.ibb.co/z6MGbpy/Screenshot-202 ... -basic.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/pzhnMpg/Screenshot-202 ... -basic.jpg

Lol. The throttle is the green curve. Your genius is almost... frightening.

Thanks for such a valuable comment. Where else can we find such ingenuity.

[ringo]

What's interesting is from the begining of the season the redbull fans have said i was trolling for calling the rb18 the best race car.. I have withstood those attacks long enough now to say I told you so. The car was always the best race car. The main reason.. the ability to overtake. That straightline speed is the most important factor that makes the strategies work. And redbull know this and exploit it.
Ferrari looks flashy and nice in qualifying and would sometimes be able to get a rabbit start and steal a win here or there. But at no point beside the first few races they were cruising to wins. Even when we think they had the win in the bag and stuffed it, they stuffed it pretty early out in the race.
The RB18 is the car to have this season and it is a dominant car. When you know you can win from anywhere on track and there is no car that can chase you down on the same strategy you have a dominant cat. Even Perez is enjoying these gifts. He has not been the second best driver this season, but by brute force he will be second when the season is done.
Not to say Max isnt doing a good job. But he has not rival from earlier than we think. And his teammate is his foot stool.
I willl still try to enjoy the racing however. The race was good. And the merc steategies and redbull's were good up to that last point. Ferrari have fizzled and were slower than mercedes.

[ringo]

He never had a car like the F2002/F2004 or W05/W06/W07/W10/W11.

These cars never had so much clownery for competition.
Barichello, Bottas, Rosberg were better teamates too

True!

Verstapen has got Ferrari, Mercedes and Perez all either being not fast enough or doing strategic mistakes! Look at Spa…Perez started at the front and Max got him by lap 10 with exactly the same car! This never happened with Hamilton and Bottas or Rozberg or even Schumacher and Barrichello!

The Vettel - Red Bull days were by far the worst domination period for F1! A team so arrogant while winning, always having a beloved child and a number 2 driver who always looked not fast enough for the team!

Don’t get me wrong, Verstapen is a much better driver than Vettel was back then but the absence of any competition makes it way more boring…

Perez doesnt have the same car at this point.
They team gave him a little dignity at the begining to see what he could do. They have moved past the honeymoon stage now and thrown their weight fully behind Max. Perez services are no longer required. He is only needed to test the waters on the track with hard tyres. Max will have all the cars upgrades fitting him like an orange bikini.

[Watto]

What's interesting is from the begining of the season the redbull fans have said i was trolling for calling the rb18 the best race car.. I have withstood those attacks long enough now to say I told you so. The car was always the best race car. The main reason.. the ability to overtake. That straightline speed is the most important factor that makes the strategies work. And redbull know this and exploit it.
Ferrari looks flashy and nice in qualifying and would sometimes be able to get a rabbit start and steal a win here or there. But at no point beside the first few races they were cruising to wins. Even when we think they had the win in the bag and stuffed it, they stuffed it pretty early out in the race.
The RB18 is the car to have this season and it is a dominant car. When you know you can win from anywhere on track and there is no car that can chase you down on the same strategy you have a dominant cat. Even Perez is enjoying these gifts. He has not been the second best driver this season, but by brute force he will be second when the season is done.
Not to say Max isnt doing a good job. But he has not rival from earlier than we think. And his teammate is his foot stool.
I willl still try to enjoy the racing however. The race was good. And the merc steategies and redbull's were good up to that last point. Ferrari have fizzled and were slower than mercedes.

I think the issue is calling it the dominate car. But and large I think the RB has had the best race car this season but had Ferarri not had its stratagy blunders the gap would likely be quite small. The latest TD seems to have hurt Ferarri which probably has shown up in the last few races.

Had Ferarri had RB or Mercs strategy teams the season would still be very much alive I think RB would still run away with it but not without some pressure, a point where maybe a RB/Max DNF and the pressure would have well and truly been on.