genarro wrote: ↑01 Jul 2024, 05:44
chrisc90 wrote: ↑30 Jun 2024, 22:43
SilviuAgo wrote: ↑30 Jun 2024, 22:29
Thanks for that! Valid also for the max fan who made a comparison between Lando on Max vs Nico approach in same turn 3. Seems that max was winning a race over Leclerc with same move. Without a penalty.
He didnt look at the Nico/Alonso incident just 23 hours earlier though. But pulls up a incident 5 years ago and about 3 or 4 different rule changes on the overtaking procedures/moving on brakes etc. Poor to bring up the Charles/Max incident.
Why? Because it proves that Max is at fault? Judging by your picture you are a little buthurt
He knows that Max is to blame, so he came to the McLaren thread, trying to stand up for the driver he supports. And I don’t remember that the overtaking rules have changed since 2019. In my opinion, as soon as Max came to F1, they changed the overtaking rules and banned shifting under braking. Or am I wrong? Or am I mixing something up?
There was an incident between Max and Kimi in Hungary. It was around this time that the Verstappen rule was introduced. Many years have passed, maybe I'm confusing something, but this was before 2019.
I'm not sure if this link is available to everyone.
https://m.vk.com/video256482795_456239583
One more: 31 August, 2016
British expert Mark Hughes has given a very categorical comment on the actions of Max Verstappen during the Belgian Grand Prix in the Motorsport Magazine.
This weekend in Monza it will be interesting to observe the consequences of Max Verstappen's behavior in Spa - first of all, the maneuver he carried out against Kimi Raikkonen at a speed of over 300 km/h on the Kemmel straight. Only the Finn's instant, cool reaction prevented a serious accident: Verstappen "stuck" in the middle of the track when the Ferrari was quickly catching up with him, waited for Kimi to decide which side to overtake the Dutchman from, and only then moved in the same direction.
He used the same technique, but at a relatively low speed, against Raikkonen at Turn 1 of the Hungaroring – and all these actions are very reminiscent of the infamous maneuver by Michael Schumacher against Mika Hakkinen in 2000 on the Belgian track on the same Kemmel straight.
The rules give an ambiguous interpretation of such maneuvers, but there is nothing to judge: what Verstappen did in Spa on Sunday was clearly a deadly and deliberate provocation. This should not happen in Formula 1, so the reaction in such cases should be tough and categorical: the Dutchman should have shown the black flag. Pull into the pits, turn off the engine, get out of the car – the race is over for you.
There were versions that Verstappen was saved from punishment by his powerful influence on the commercial side of racing, which is so important right now, and allegedly that is why he is allowed to do things for which others would certainly be punished. Personally, I don't really believe in the existence of such a regulation, although it is quite clear where such assumptions come from.
Drivers are penalized for much less dangerous actions, as, for example, happened with Nico Rosberg in Hockenheim, when he forced Verstappen off the track. Incidentally, the Mercedes driver then only responded to Max's maneuver, who moved towards Rosberg's car in the braking zone - this is another scary move, not provided for by the rules at all, but which is not allowed by the tacit agreements that exist between the drivers, since it can potentially lead to extremely dangerous consequences.
At the same time, there is a clause in the rules that could have been used to punish Rosberg for his actions, which is what was done. However, neither of Verstappen's two favourite methods of defence - neither shifting in the braking zone, nor "hanging" in the middle of the track before a turn in order to decide on a trajectory only after the pursuer has chosen that side - neither of these techniques is prohibited by the rules.
Usually, drivers agree on such things themselves, and they are provided for by an unspoken code of acceptable behaviour. But any attempt to formalise this behaviour, to put it into verbal formulations, leads to difficulties. After all, any formulation entails the emergence of "grey areas". Therefore, there will always be a temptation to find a way to circumvent the provisions of the rules - Michael Schumacher brought this to perfection. As soon as you formulate what is considered legal, the obvious reaction of any sportsman will be: does this mean that what is not taken into account in this formulation is considered legal?
It turns out that any actions previously not provided for by the rules involuntarily become acceptable. Fortunately, not many drivers have followed Schumacher's logic, but Max does exactly that.
When Formula 1 starts to get strict and drivers are punished for breaking the rules of conduct on the track, it always leads to undesirable consequences: on the one hand, motorsport bureaucrats start to pick on drivers for trivial violations, on the other, the appearance of "gray areas" in the rules actually allows the use of dangerous techniques, because they are not formally prohibited. And when attempts are made to put the provisions of the unwritten rules into verbal formulations, stewards immediately take this into service and consider it their duty to interfere with the natural course of the race.
Previously, if drivers disagreed in their interpretation of certain provisions of the unspoken code, they sorted it out among themselves after the finish of the Grand Prix, but usually these differences were not so significant.
At the drivers' briefing in Monza, Verstappen will definitely come under fire from critics. But, most likely, he is psychologically strong enough and quite confident in his remarkable abilities, so all this is unlikely to affect him. But if he is disqualified every time he allows himself to act unnecessarily dangerously, then he will quickly come to his senses. And in this case, it does not matter what the specific wording of the rules says.
Source: motorsport, 26 October, 2016
The issue of defensive braking was raised before the race in the USA. The reason was the dangerous maneuvers that Max Verstappen repeated many times during the season, which caused discontent among other drivers. As a result, drivers were banned from shifting sharply under braking, and former Formula 1 driver Jacques Villeneuve praised the FIA for making this decision.
Jacques Villeneuve: "Finally they did it, and now Verstappen will not behave like this. Previously, no one allowed themselves to do this, because everyone understood how dangerous Formula 1 is, but the new generation is completely different. Verstappen and Sainz irritate me the most, because they constantly do the same tricks. Apparently, they spent their entire childhood playing video games, and you can do this endlessly there. Here they repeat their maneuvers, thinking that nothing will happen because of the high safety of the cars. In this way, they only show disrespect to their opponents."
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