Pirelli 2013

[GTSpeedster]

You will probably find that Pirelli wanted to keep the test private until it was done. At least that makes some sense. You have to ask yourself why they kept it private in the first place? Obviously because otherwise they would have never got it done. So that is your most likely answer, Richard.

Well maybe - just maybe - you also should ask yourself why you think they would never get to test had they inform the other teams? Perhaps because then they would have to face illegality claims that wouldn't be so easy to dismissed?

Let's try this... "You" can meet in private with a lover, or a possible lover to be, without broadcasting it to your friends or informing your wife. You'd want meet with her in private as I guess "that makes some sense". And it's not like it was a secret or anything, mind you, you simply kept things 'private' in order to be able do the deeds without having to face the obvious consequences...

Sophistry for cheating if you ask me.

[SectorOne]

Well maybe - just maybe - you also should ask yourself why you think they would never get to test had they inform the other teams?

Actually they would get to test if they had informed the other teams. That was one of the criteria FIA stated needed to be fullfilled if they were to run a ´13 car.

[GTSpeedster]

Well maybe - just maybe - you also should ask yourself why you think they would never get to test had they inform the other teams?

Actually they would get to test if they had informed the other teams. That was one of the criteria FIA stated needed to be fullfilled if they were to run a ´13 car.

Incomplete. We've seen e-mails from both FIA and FOTA specifically stating that such tests would only be allowed to happen if ALL of the other teams were informed AND agreed to it.

And that's why neither Pirelli nor Mercedes bothered to even try it. Which, in my opinion, is pretty telling of their malintent.

[FoxHound]

Has the FIA seen Mercedes and Pirelli's evidence in its entirety?

[SectorOne]

Incomplete. We've seen e-mails from both FIA and FOTA specifically stating that such tests would only be allowed to happen if ALL of the other teams were informed AND agreed to it.

I haven´t read anything about that they needed to agree on the test. Could you post that specific email or statement?

And that's why neither Pirelli nor Mercedes bothered to even try it. Which, in my opinion, is pretty telling of their malintent.

Well we know teams were notified, even a team that said they knew nothing about it.

[Cam]

I haven´t read anything about that they needed to agree on the test. Could you post that specific email or statement?

While the FIA readies to analyse a possible breach of the official rules, Germany's Sport Bild claims Mercedes also broke an explicit gentleman's agreement between the teams when it ran its 'secret' test in May.

The magazine published a copy of the signed 'Testing Agreement 2013', featuring the signature of every team boss, including the under-fire Ross Brawn.

The document shows that F1's eleven teams agreed that in the event Pirelli wanted to run development testing for 2014, any test would have to be jointly approved by the testing committee - the teams - and the FIA.

"The document raises massive questions about Mercedes' credibility," said Sport Bild.

http://sportbild.bild.de/SPORT/formel-1 ... ht=349.jpg
Source: http://sportbild.bild.de/SPORT/formel-1 ... cedes.html

Well we know teams were notified, even a team that said they knew nothing about it.

Actually, it has to be in context. It appears Ferrari and Red Bull (not all teams) were vaguely asked to a 2013 car test, which those teams considered illegal and did not proceed (see: not approved). There was a general email(s) since 2012, sent to teams suggesting a general tyre test was possible - which most teams assumed was using a 2 year old car - as per the regulations. Critically, not all teams were specifically asked to test a 2013 car at Barcelona. You can review this thread or indeed AutoSport or any major motorsport publication to obtain direct quotes from team directors stating as much.

Reverse the questioning: If ALL teams were invited to attend the Barcelona tyre test, using a 2013 car, clearly sanctioned by the FIA, would they all have turned up?

[WhiteBlue]

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/news/12433/8777022/

There are a lot of things being said that aren't quite correct and we would like the opportunity to explain our situation in particular and we will participate with willingness.

This seems to indicate that not everything that got reported is correct.

[SectorOne]

Thankfully Cam sorted thing out, thanks Cam, i had missed that new bit of info completely.

[Cam]

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/news/12433/8777022/

There are a lot of things being said that aren't quite correct and we would like the opportunity to explain our situation in particular and we will participate with willingness.

This seems to indicate that not everything that got reported is correct.

I don't doubt it. As I've shown previously, Paul can give conflicting reports to the media in a short space of time. Pirelli in general haven't' really been great communicators through this episode either - so it's entirely possible critical information was misrepresented, missing, or just not supplied to begin with. So long as his lawyers stop him from talking - what does he expect? Bit harsh to blame the media when you won't give a full and frank interview.

[Cam]

So Mercedes have the right to say "no", and where in such a position....Means they should have said "no"?

Cooper is better than this..

Arguably, in hindsight, they should have said "no, until we hear categorically from the FIA and all teams that it's ok. Once we have a piece of paper with all the teams signatures, including the FIA's, we'll say "yes" to a 2013 car test with you".

IMO, Cooper is simply stating the obvious. If a mate hands you a bag of cash to 'hold' for him, and you don't confirm it's not stolen - you've only got yourself to blame really. We only have a couple of days to go until we all know either way. Regardless of the outcome, it does show clearly there is a right and wrong way of handling a situation - and that in future, transparency and communication with all teams, is paramount - so that excuse won't fly again.

[pob]

I'm happy that Lotus has spoken out about Pirelli's overly conservative tyre choice for Hungary. I was really surprised that no one spoke out against it towards the end of last season when Pirelli did something similar. In my opinion, all tyre compounds should be named for each race at the start of the season and only changed with unanimous agreement of the teams.

[dave34m]

I have to admit, that gentleman's agreement does change the perspective a bit. Although such an agreement has no juridical value and indeed has been broken already in the past, ethically it is highly valued, even in F1.

It's not inmediately going to add up at the IT, but will bring distrust towards Mercedes among the teams.

I hate the title about the subject on this website. It is by no means evidence. The International Tribunal can't use it, and I doubt any other court would validate it as evidence.

Yes, it also raises the question about what tyres Ferrari was testing, I would be interested to now why Perelli has refused to disclose what tyres were run the that test. If they were 2014 tyres then Ferrari have also broken this Gentlemans agreement

I believe the agreement doesn't include testing with 2 year old cars. Just this years car.

Not so sure about that, why has Pirelli refused to disclose what tyres were tested, what could have been happening that is so secert, anyone testing 2014 tryes had to notify all teams and the FIA. If this so called gentlemans agreement becomes a problem for Mercedes then the Ferrari test needs to be looked into properly.

[dave34m]

Well maybe - just maybe - you also should ask yourself why you think they would never get to test had they inform the other teams?

Actually they would get to test if they had informed the other teams. That was one of the criteria FIA stated needed to be fullfilled if they were to run a ´13 car.

Incomplete. We've seen e-mails from both FIA and FOTA specifically stating that such tests would only be allowed to happen if ALL of the other teams were informed AND agreed to it.

And that's why neither Pirelli nor Mercedes bothered to even try it. Which, in my opinion, is pretty telling of their malintent.

Have we seen emails from FIA and FOTA, I have been away a few days so may have missed this, I have only seen a statement from FIA.

[dave34m]

I'm happy that Lotus has spoken out about Pirelli's overly conservative tyre choice for Hungary. I was really surprised that no one spoke out against it towards the end of last season when Pirelli did something similar. In my opinion, all tyre compounds should be named for each race at the start of the season and only changed with unanimous agreement of the teams.

Well if Pirelli have been stopped from fixing the problems they have with the softer tyres by Lotus then they can hardly complain when harder tyres are chosen. Pirelli dont want a another public relations disaster like Barcelona

[FoxHound]

So Mercedes have the right to say "no", and where in such a position....Means they should have said "no"?

Cooper is better than this..

IMO, Cooper is simply stating the obvious.

Your example of mates taking cash etc is flawed. It intimates guilt.

And for the record, where did Bernie say... "Mercedes should've said no".
He didn't say that, regardless of what Mr Cooper cares to scribe.
I value that you care for his story. Fair enough if you do, honestly.
I care more for accuracy rather than misquoted headlines designed to get everyone foaming at the mouth.
Hence why I'm dissapointed in Coopers story, as generally he gives decent service.

Please also don't think it's because his story runs contrary to what I think.
It's just not cricket to misquote and mislead the way the story has.
If it comes to light Mercedes flagrantly cheated, I'll take it back.

But I'm of the opinion they didn't, and I'm fairly confident of that in light of some rumoured FIA/FOM/Pirelli/Mercedes emails of which I'm sadly not privy too.
The cat was out the bag before that Benz hit the track, and Brawn will also be savvy enough to know that.
My assumption.
Maybe Bernie played him a kipper.

Who knows. I don't. None of us really do, regardless of some quite extraordinary moral high ground rhetoric.

Shall we all perhaps now just wait for the facts? [-o<