2015 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

[komninosm]

Curious to know how a .3 PSI difference on ONE tire is an advantage. Curious to know if it's approved by Pirelli when it's being filled and it's lower when it gets to the grid how there's anything anyone can do about it. Curious to know how they know an issue exisist yet allow just about the entirety of a race to go on before a descision is made to notify Mercedes that they're under investigation.

It's not like the race stewards haven't been paid off to give Ferrari a win before, this attempt is just... more brazen. Let's hope this doesn't have to be settled in the courts three months from now.

When did Ferrari pay stewards to get a win?

[Moose]

Curious to know how a .3 PSI difference on ONE tire is an advantage. Curious to know if it's approved by Pirelli when it's being filled and it's lower when it gets to the grid how there's anything anyone can do about it. Curious to know how they know an issue exisist yet allow just about the entirety of a race to go on before a descision is made to notify Mercedes that they're under investigation.

It's not like the race stewards haven't been paid off to give Ferrari a win before, this attempt is just... more brazen. Let's hope this doesn't have to be settled in the courts three months from now.

When did Ferrari pay stewards to get a win?

You realise that during the 90s and early '00s the FIA was more commonly known as Ferrari International Assistance, right?

[nevill3]

Getting back to Ferrari's apparent gains, I remember hearing on Sky sports that the new fuel they were using from Shell has given them at least a 30bhp boost since Australia (or was it 50bhp I am not sure now), they have used several "formulas" this season with the latest one giving the them extra power coupled with the use of some tokens has seen them reduce the gap to Mercedes.

As for Mercedes I thought that they used all their tokens now because they have changed parts of the engine that will become frozen after this year and will not be allowed to be modified in the future. Hence the 2016 label that is being applied isn't too far wrong.

[komninosm]

Curious to know how a .3 PSI difference on ONE tire is an advantage. Curious to know if it's approved by Pirelli when it's being filled and it's lower when it gets to the grid how there's anything anyone can do about it. Curious to know how they know an issue exisist yet allow just about the entirety of a race to go on before a descision is made to notify Mercedes that they're under investigation.

It's not like the race stewards haven't been paid off to give Ferrari a win before, this attempt is just... more brazen. Let's hope this doesn't have to be settled in the courts three months from now.

When did Ferrari pay stewards to get a win?

You realise that during the 90s and early '00s the FIA was more commonly known as Ferrari International Assistance, right?

I know, I've been watching F1 since Prost and Senna when I was a kid, but when has Ferrari been actually proven to have paid a steward to get a win or something similar?

[Jolle]

Curious to know how a .3 PSI difference on ONE tire is an advantage. Curious to know if it's approved by Pirelli when it's being filled and it's lower when it gets to the grid how there's anything anyone can do about it. Curious to know how they know an issue exisist yet allow just about the entirety of a race to go on before a descision is made to notify Mercedes that they're under investigation.

It's not like the race stewards haven't been paid off to give Ferrari a win before, this attempt is just... more brazen. Let's hope this doesn't have to be settled in the courts three months from now.

When did Ferrari pay stewards to get a win?

They only measured the left rear tires, the right one (and both front ones) were prob at the same temperature level en pressure.

[iotar__]

Curious to know how a .3 PSI difference on ONE tire is an advantage. Curious to know if it's approved by Pirelli when it's being filled and it's lower when it gets to the grid how there's anything anyone can do about it. Curious to know how they know an issue exisist yet allow just about the entirety of a race to go on before a descision is made to notify Mercedes that they're under investigation.

If their rear wing was longer by 0,3 cm asymmetrically (or whatever ) would you be asking about the amount of downforce it gave them and lap advantage or would it be an automatic DSQ? Would you be saying it didn't matter because they're winning anyway? No. Merc arguing about advantages of .3 PSI is only marketing.

Repeating time, order is important:
- did Merc start with pressure outside of recommended range as measured and stated in FIA document or not?
- does said pressure affect state of the tyres and therefore the safety in connection with performance at any time in the race (stressing any)? Yes, that's why it was put in place and that's why stopping Merc in the race argument exists. No later monitoring or earlier (no) blankets measurements can change that. No guilt either. "Well Pirelli measured it so it's OK" There's no place for that in races.
- only now can it be a matter of applying penalties, they only got away because of the name, it was about a race win and would have resulted in another tyres and FIA controversy, better avoid that.

It doesn't matter, boring race anyway, season is over and everything is set. Massa got a podium again and not Bottas.

[mrluke]

Are you serious?

If the FIA are measuring tyre pressures at some point after the blankets are turned off then the pressures will be wrong, its unrepeatable and would always mean that the last persons tyres to be measured would be the lowest.

How can you see that as a correct procedure?

[stuartpengs]

Double post - deleted.

[stuartpengs]

If their rear wing was longer by 0,3 cm asymmetrically (or whatever ) would you be asking about the amount of downforce it gave them and lap advantage or would it be an automatic DSQ? Would you be saying it didn't matter because they're winning anyway? No. Merc arguing about advantages of .3 PSI is only marketing.

This is a ridiculous analogy and only highlights a fundamental misunderstanding of the issue (along with your broader, well known, dystopic view of F1). Any team who tires to increase the width of a rear wing, for example, carry this out and the design process, it's factored in from design, construction and implementation. That's why Pat Symmonds (I thought) was being highly disingenuous (and almost nauseatingly ironic) when using that example, or engine capacity as other examples.

FIA are/were guilty of a overlooking basic physical properties - you simply cannot view pressure and temperature in isolation when asking technical delegates to carry out rudimentary checks in an uncontrolled environment. Lesson learned, move on, nothing to see here.

[dans79]

- only now can it be a matter of applying penalties, they only got away because of the name, it was about a race win and would have resulted in another tyres and FIA controversy, better avoid that.

You are right and everyone else with common sense is wrong.......................

[Just_a_fan]

- did Merc start with pressure outside of recommended range as measured and stated in FIA document or not?
.

No. The tyres have to have a certain minimum pressure WHEN FIRST FITTED TO THE CAR. The tyres had this pressure so were in compliance with the rule.

Really, it is very simple. Even you should be able to understand it.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Repeating time, order is important:
- did Merc start with pressure outside of recommended range as measured and stated in FIA document or not?
- does said pressure affect state of the tyres and therefore the safety in connection with performance at any time in the race (stressing any)? Yes, that's why it was put in place and that's why stopping Merc in the race argument exists. No later monitoring or earlier (no) blankets measurements can change that. No guilt either. "Well Pirelli measured it so it's OK" There's no place for that in races.
- only now can it be a matter of applying penalties, they only got away because of the name, it was about a race win and would have resulted in another tyres and FIA controversy, better avoid that.

It doesn't matter, boring race anyway, season is over and everything is set. Massa got a podium again and not Bottas.

So you are suggesting the pressures should be enforced on cold tyres? On that basis, I believe the entire field would have been DSQed.

[bonjon1979]

Curious to know how a .3 PSI difference on ONE tire is an advantage. Curious to know if it's approved by Pirelli when it's being filled and it's lower when it gets to the grid how there's anything anyone can do about it. Curious to know how they know an issue exisist yet allow just about the entirety of a race to go on before a descision is made to notify Mercedes that they're under investigation.

If their rear wing was longer by 0,3 cm asymmetrically (or whatever ) would you be asking about the amount of downforce it gave them and lap advantage or would it be an automatic DSQ? Would you be saying it didn't matter because they're winning anyway? No. Merc arguing about advantages of .3 PSI is only marketing.

Repeating time, order is important:
- did Merc start with pressure outside of recommended range as measured and stated in FIA document or not?
- does said pressure affect state of the tyres and therefore the safety in connection with performance at any time in the race (stressing any)? Yes, that's why it was put in place and that's why stopping Merc in the race argument exists. No later monitoring or earlier (no) blankets measurements can change that. No guilt either. "Well Pirelli measured it so it's OK" There's no place for that in races.
- only now can it be a matter of applying penalties, they only got away because of the name, it was about a race win and would have resulted in another tyres and FIA controversy, better avoid that.

It doesn't matter, boring race anyway, season is over and everything is set. Massa got a podium again and not Bottas.

You're completely omitting a crucial part. They WEREN'T under the recommended PSI when the tyres were fitted to the car for the start of the race. It's pure physics. The power was disconnected on the tyre blankets and the tyres were measured, because Nico's tyres were last to be measured, they had most time to cool down, so pressure dropped more. You can't compare it to a rear wing, that is constant in it's size. You're either being wilfully ignorant about this or you misunderstand some fairly basic physics.

Did merc start with a pressure outside of recommended range as measured and stated in the FIA document or not?

This is a completely bizarre question, since it was answered directly by the FIA themselves:

'the stewards have determined that the pressure in the tyres concerned were at the minimum start pressure recommended by Pirelli when they were fitted to the car'

Case closed.

The only reason there is any debate about this is because of the stupidity of those who took a measurement from tyres that had been allowed to cool down. Further stupidity is being shown by those that fail to understand that as tyres cool, pressure naturally drops.

[NathanOlder]

Curious to know how a .3 PSI difference on ONE tire is an advantage. Curious to know if it's approved by Pirelli when it's being filled and it's lower when it gets to the grid how there's anything anyone can do about it. Curious to know how they know an issue exisist yet allow just about the entirety of a race to go on before a descision is made to notify Mercedes that they're under investigation.

If their rear wing was longer by 0,3 cm asymmetrically (or whatever ) would you be asking about the amount of downforce it gave them and lap advantage or would it be an automatic DSQ? Would you be saying it didn't matter because they're winning anyway? No. Merc arguing about advantages of .3 PSI is only marketing.

Repeating time, order is important:
- did Merc start with pressure outside of recommended range as measured and stated in FIA document or not?
- does said pressure affect state of the tyres and therefore the safety in connection with performance at any time in the race (stressing any)? Yes, that's why it was put in place and that's why stopping Merc in the race argument exists. No later monitoring or earlier (no) blankets measurements can change that. No guilt either. "Well Pirelli measured it so it's OK" There's no place for that in races.
- only now can it be a matter of applying penalties, they only got away because of the name, it was about a race win and would have resulted in another tyres and FIA controversy, better avoid that.

It doesn't matter, boring race anyway, season is over and everything is set. Massa got a podium again and not Bottas.

Dude, just give it up, your making an @$$ of yourself. Your argument it totally invalid and as people have said, just a small amount of common sense can see your wrong.

[dans79]

This gives a nice clear overview of how the entire tire pressure saga was because of the FIA's (Jo Bauer's) incompetence.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/itali ... ole-story/