2018 Azerbaijan GP - Verstappen, Ricciardo clash

[J.A.W.]

well.. you may call it a religious discussion but how is RIC's commitment to that move different from a divebomb? VES isn't all over the track like you make us believe, RIC is confused by Max' response on his own dummy. take a good luck again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p5AFws ... r_embedded

Verstappen has no right of that last move to the left. It's against the rules.

Please guys, I'm not arguing about how unnecessarily aggressive that move/overtake was, but everybody is so quick to point out that this is illegal while in fact it isn't. Paragraph 27.5 is now forfeit from the sporting regulations. If anyone can give me black on white that blocking with more than one move is not allowed I would be grateful.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia- ... 17-884973/

EDIT: if it even is blocking.. which I'm not sure about.

EDIT 2: Like I said, stewards judged it perfectly, both got reprimanded.

Actually if you read the linked citation, there are several things...

1, FIA stewardship now takes up Lewis Carroll's 'Humpty Dumpty' - zeitgeist,
which is duly paraphrased below, as..

"Rules mean whatever I say they mean, neither more nor less."

2, 'Endangerment', - root cause analysis shows that Max's actions forced the collision,
by deliberately/knowingly presenting Dan - with no other option..
..but to collide/crash, & thus clearly providing..
an ex post facto test of the - a priori - rule (even including the 'Humpty-Dumpty' factor), in effect.

3, Did you even read the 'bottom line' - in Whiting's statement, which you yourself, linked?

[sosic2121]

Verstappen has no right of that last move to the left. It's against the rules.

Please guys, I'm not arguing about how unnecessarily aggressive that move/overtake was, but everybody is so quick to point out that this is illegal while in fact it isn't. Paragraph 27.5 is now forfeit from the sporting regulations. If anyone can give me black on white that blocking with more than one move is not allowed I would be grateful.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia- ... 17-884973/

EDIT: if it even is blocking.. which I'm not sure about.

EDIT 2: Like I said, stewards judged it perfectly, both got reprimanded.

Actually if you read the linked citation, there are several things...

1, FIA stewardship now takes up Lewis Carroll's 'Humpty Dumpty' - zeitgeist,
which is duly paraphrased below, as..

"Rules mean whatever I say they mean, neither more nor less."

2, 'Endangerment', - root cause analysis shows that Max's actions forced the collision,
by deliberately/knowingly presenting Dan - with no other option..
..but to collide/crash, & thus clearly providing..
an ex post facto test of the - a priori - rule (even including the 'Humpty-Dumpty' factor), in effect.

3, Did you even read the 'bottom line' - in Whiting's statement, which you yourself, linked?

And here it is.
"Whiting clarified that the strict rules governing drivers only making one move while defending a position remain in place"

[djos]

And yet Dan got reprimanded too!

[Andres125sx]

F1 politics sucks djos, not first time, and surely not last either

[JonoNic]

All Dan has to do is win a championship. Then he won't be penalized unfairly in the future. Either you're a golden boy, champion or the fall guy.

And yet Dan got reprimanded too!

[djos]

F1 politics sucks djos, not first time, and surely not last either

True mate, reminds me of the infamous senna vs prost incident where prost prevailed using politics.

[Phil]

And yet Dan got reprimanded too!

Historically, I think the stewards are less inclined to investigate incidents between team-mates. I can remember numerous instances, especially Hamilton/Rosberg that were not even investigated, and if they were, they were usually concluded with "no action required", a "reprimand" or something without any serious implication for either driver.

I assume that the incident in Baku was big enough to draw some attention and by reprimanding both, they come across as impartial but also are not getting involved in the internal team politics at RedBull.

[djos]

Is a good point you raise, however it's poor form treating team mates differently from non team mates.

[Sieper]

Or the stewards truly believed Max move was so minor that it didn't warrant any punishment (I feel that way too, have a look at the head on camera angle) and that Ricci was simply too late and his see through very (too) late dummy wasn't the correct plan of attack nor thinking he could take the inside line (but he got caught out by Max not giving the inside line away) so felt no punishment needed for Ric neither.

And as said many times before, this circuit has the longest straight of the whole circus, it had head on wind even and it had after a tow of 15 seconds also a DRS thrown in as extra sauce on top so could it be that both drivers got caught out by how little downforce was left to break (Ricci still had some (be it little) time to react (but the TOW, DRS and wind combined) made him shoot through harder then perhaps both expected. The situation (combination of extremely long tow, and DRS and hard wind) was an extreme which you don't see on (m)any other circuits.

[Jolle]

There is a brilliant line from one of the many "about senna" interviews over the years, Brundle speaking about racing Senna: He would make a move to overtake and left it up to you whether or not you have a crash. 9 out of 10 would jump out of the way and he won even before he made the move.

This is what I think Verstappen did the past few years but now he's up against Hamilton and Vettel, who won't jump out of the way. This is I think why both were quite relaxed about the crashes in the past few races, they are educating Vertappen, teaching that this trick won't work on them and they choose the crash.

[Fulcrum]

The Senna approach works if the percentages are right. If 90% of people leap out of your way, the 1 incident in 10 won't be that detrimental. When the numbers edge toward 80/20 or 70/30, the person instigating the moves suffers most and would be better served not doing it.

Verstappen had the wood on people to begin with, but his aura diminishes with every passing incident, as people seem more willing than ever to reciprocate his aggressive approach.

[Sieper]

Unfair judgement imho, even in this very race (after the first safety car) Verstappen simply overtook Ric at race restart very authorative, no jumping, no forcing, just outwitted. Also at race start, Turn 1 he avoided being pushed into the wall by Ricc (fair move, no complaining by me) but the "Verstappen only knows get out of my way or crash" is not very truthful.

In this Incident we are discussing here it was actually Ric trying to overtake and the way he did it fully adheres to your "his aggressive approach" "trick" "move out of the way or crash".

Listen guys, I am fully for a balanced view, and Verstappen is a hard devil in duels, perhaps he needs to still learn there when not to be as hard but all this, Yes Verstappen has done it gain, Verstappen can't do no good is really getting to me. Grrrrr ;-(

[George-Jung]

Yes what Phil said, 100%.

Sure.. so where is the racing line for example in wet races?

C'mon G-J, can you try & be serious, already?

Does your 'unique' way of seeing, somehow also.. miss the 'dry line' which tyre contact clears, on a wet track..
& thus also clearly shows - the 'racing line' emerging..

Brasil 2016- Verstappen overtook Rosberg on the outside, at that time the quickest way around the track.. was that the racing line?..

[daniellammers]

Sure.. so where is the racing line for example in wet races?

C'mon G-J, can you try & be serious, already?

Does your 'unique' way of seeing, somehow also.. miss the 'dry line' which tyre contact clears, on a wet track..
& thus also clearly shows - the 'racing line' emerging..

Brasil 2016- Verstappen overtook Rosberg on the outside, at that time the quickest way around the track.. was that the racing line?..

Rosberg made a mistake, Max didn't. The momentum Max had made that line look the fastest.

[George-Jung]

No mistake from Rosberg, he was just driving.. the race line?