2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

[etusch]

It seems that Verstappen was absolutely right - it's not Hamilton, it's a car.

With that mindset, Redbull/Max will never win a championship.. so... keep it up

hahaha Hamilton fans were thinking that it was Ham's talent and they still want to think like that.

[etusch]

Lastly, it’s always been about the car. For as long as F1 has been around. As pointed out before, the Driver’s Championship and Manufacturer’s Championship have only diverged a small handful of times.

Exactly. If the car wasn't important then why did Fangio swap teams all the time, sometimes mid season, in order to secure the best car? Why didn't Prost win the title in the Renault or the MP4/2. Why did he wait until the MP4-2B? Why didn't Senna win the title in the Toleman? Why didn't Clark win titles in the Lotus 18 or the 21? Why didn't he win it in his first season in the 25? Why wait 'til the second season with the 25? What was Stewart playing around at in the BRM? Or Vettel in the RB5 or the RB10 or any of the Ferraris of the last 6 years?

Any driver needs a top flight car to win titles. If the car is rubbish then the results are rubbish. Simple really.

because of that a drivers main rival is his team mate. İf you can beat your team mate you are better than him. But if you beat someone who has slower car, it isn't mean that much. If you beat someone who drives faster car it means much. Balttery bottus.

[Just_a_fan]

It seems that Verstappen was absolutely right - it's not Hamilton, it's a car.

I don't think anyone has ever said the Mercedes is not the best car? Look at what Hamilton was able to do in cars that weren't the best, that should answer your question. The same can be said of Verstappen & Alonso, but perhaps not so much of drivers like Vettel.

Like in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013? Nobody can drag a bad car to wins and championships. Occasional highlights yes, but that's about it.
Even Senna couldn't do much in 1992 and 1993.

2 wins, 3 wins, 3 wins, 4 wins, 1 win.

Hamilton 2009-2013: 13 wins.

Team mates: 0 wins, 2 wins (reigning champion), 3 wins, 3 wins, 2 wins (future champion)

Team mates 2009-2013: 10 wins.

Yeah, he's rubbish in a non-dominant car.

[Just_a_fan]

Lastly, it’s always been about the car. For as long as F1 has been around. As pointed out before, the Driver’s Championship and Manufacturer’s Championship have only diverged a small handful of times.

Exactly. If the car wasn't important then why did Fangio swap teams all the time, sometimes mid season, in order to secure the best car? Why didn't Prost win the title in the Renault or the MP4/2. Why did he wait until the MP4-2B? Why didn't Senna win the title in the Toleman? Why didn't Clark win titles in the Lotus 18 or the 21? Why didn't he win it in his first season in the 25? Why wait 'til the second season with the 25? What was Stewart playing around at in the BRM? Or Vettel in the RB5 or the RB10 or any of the Ferraris of the last 6 years?

Any driver needs a top flight car to win titles. If the car is rubbish then the results are rubbish. Simple really.

because of that a drivers main rival is his team mate. İf you can beat your team mate you are better than him. But if you beat someone who has slower car, it isn't mean that much. If you beat someone who drives faster car it means much. Balttery bottus.

The point is, you can only be directly compared to your team mate. And in that comparison, Hamilton has done better than almost anyone. He has finished higher in the title standings than his team mate in all but 2 of his seasons. Consider that 3 of his 5 team mates have had a world championship to their name at some point int heir career. No other driver has ever taken on, and bettered, three world champions in the same car.

And when he hasn't had the best car, he's still got poles and wins in every season he's competed in.

[Just_a_fan]

It seems that Verstappen was absolutely right - it's not Hamilton, it's a car.

Nothing stopping Red Bull copying it (until next year)

I'm sure those 16mm of wheelbase makes all the difference. That's like 8x 2mm.

Oh an excellent, and long waited for, riposte to the earlier mickey-takes. Well played, sir, well played.

[Just_a_fan]

With that mindset, Redbull/Max will never win a championship.. so... keep it up

That's exactly what both Hamilton and Alonso used to say when Vettel was dominating.

Except Alonso and Hamilton have performed outside of the "special cars" they had when they won the titles.

[Phil]

From AMuS:

Russell hatte allerdings Mühe mit dem Mercedes mit vollen Tanks. Auf den Soft-Reifen war Bottas im Schnitt um vier Zehntel schneller als der Aushilfspilot im Team. Auf den harten Reifen fiel der Unterschied deutlich geringer aus. Bottas schaffte im Mittel 58,295 Sekunden über 19 Runden, Russell 58,316 Sekunden.

In the long runs, Bottas was about 4 tenths quicker on average than Russel on the softs, on the harder tire, they were very close with small edge to Bottas. Overall compared to RedBull, it seems Mercedes is running more downforce, possibly too much.

Could be yet another difficult for which ever Mercedes falls into traffic and DRS trains...

[PlatinumZealot]

It seems that Verstappen was absolutely right - it's not Hamilton, it's a car.

With that mindset, Redbull/Max will never win a championship.. so... keep it up

That's exactly what both Hamilton and Alonso used to say when Vettel was dominating.

From winning to spinning. So Lewis and Fernando were right!

[Shrieker]

russell p1 lap in fp1

Thanks ! Got the fastest lap in fp 2 as well ?

[Moore77]

That's exactly what both Hamilton and Alonso used to say when Vettel was dominating.

Except Alonso and Hamilton have performed outside of the "special cars" they had when they won the titles.

Define "performed". Did they win titles in inferior cars?

[Moore77]

I don't think anyone has ever said the Mercedes is not the best car? Look at what Hamilton was able to do in cars that weren't the best, that should answer your question. The same can be said of Verstappen & Alonso, but perhaps not so much of drivers like Vettel.

Like in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013? Nobody can drag a bad car to wins and championships. Occasional highlights yes, but that's about it.
Even Senna couldn't do much in 1992 and 1993.

2 wins, 3 wins, 3 wins, 4 wins, 1 win.

Hamilton 2009-2013: 13 wins.

Team mates: 0 wins, 2 wins (reigning champion), 3 wins, 3 wins, 2 wins (future champion)

Team mates 2009-2013: 10 wins.

Yeah, he's rubbish in a non-dominant car.

The fact that his team mates could also win in those years shows, the non dominant cars were capable of wins!

[djos]

Geez, some of simplistic Hamilton hating here is just idiotic. I’m not a fan of Lewis but you can’t ignore the fact that he’s always had a team mate to beat in the same machinery.

Just look at Rosberg, he was a very good driver, much better than Bottas. He was fast and hungry and fought tooth and nail against Hamilton, but he only managed to win the WDC once in the years they were at Mercedes together.

It’s little wonder he retired straight afterwards, that year was intense and one could reasonably argue it was bad luck that stopped Hamilton from winning that year too.

Anyway on to Russell, its been obvious from his junior results and his F1 qually domination at Williams that he’s the real deal. He’s demonstrating he’s fast and and can rise to the challenge.

That’s more than we can say of drivers like Perez, Gasly, Kiviat and Albon who have been unable to rise to the occasion when given seats in top tier teams!

PS I’m not English so don’t accuse me of patriotic bias please!

[zibby43]

Single Lap Pace



Race Pace

[lio007]

Single Lap Pace

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Race Pace

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I thought RBR had the best race pace in FP!?

[Moore77]

Single Lap Pace

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Race Pace

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I thought RBR had the best race pace in FP!?

It doesn't matter. Regardless of what pace Red Bull shows on Friday, it's always a Mercedes that dominates the Saturday and Sunday. To that extent, it's pointless to compare.