Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen came together in the first lap of the British Grand Prix, and despite a penalty, the reigning World Champion won his home race. Charles Leclerc finished a close second as Bottas came home in third.
Way too many Lewis sympathisers here. Lewis is 100% to blame for this incident. His front wing touched Max's rear wheel and it doesn't matter what Max may or may not have been doing beforehand for which he may have been penalised for. Lewis didn't have the corner and basically punted Max in to his 51G accident. This should have been a black flag for Lewis and not a 10 second penalty. How can this penalty be the same as what happened with Norris and Perez at Austria when Max is out of the race and in Hospital. This is Senna / Prost in Japan 1990.
If Max's rear tyre doesn't come off it's likely a spin, not a crash. That was a freak accident and you know it as well as anyone.
And Max wasn't "IN hospital" he was visiting for a precautionary check up because he felt dizzy and Silverstone doesn't have a CT scanner on site. Some other circuits do and he would have been seen on site.
I'm puzzled why he went to Coventry Hospital, as reported by BBC. Northampton is nearer and is a Major Trauma Centre. Clearly they weren't overly concerned about him if they took him all the way to Coventry!!
Favourite driver: Lando Norris
Favourite team: McLaren
Turned down the chance to meet Vettel at Silverstone in 2007. He was a test driver at the time and I didn't think it was worth queuing!! 🤦🏻♂️
Lewis has had practice to know just how to hit the Red Bull’s right rear tires. 2019 brazil, 2020 Austria and 2021 British. Regardless of intent or how, he seems to hit the Red Bull car each time just right to send them spinning while doing little damage to his car in comparison.
Oh please this is an utterly ridiculous comment.
I have vastly more respect for the people who openly admit they don't like a given driver or team then I do for people who come up with ridiculous justifications for things.
Meant for a comic comparison. I like Lewis but I admit I am a Honda fan. Guess a smiley at the end would have been more appropriate.
Way too many Lewis sympathisers here. Lewis is 100% to blame for this incident. His front wing touched Max's rear wheel and it doesn't matter what Max may or may not have been doing beforehand for which he may have been penalised for. Lewis didn't have the corner and basically punted Max in to his 51G accident. This should have been a black flag for Lewis and not a 10 second penalty. How can this penalty be the same as what happened with Norris and Perez at Austria when Max is out of the race and in Hospital. This is Senna / Prost in Japan 1990.
If Max's rear tyre doesn't come off it's likely a spin, not a crash. That was a freak accident and you know it as well as anyone.
And Max wasn't "IN hospital" he was visiting for a precautionary check up because he felt dizzy and Silverstone doesn't have a CT scanner on site. Some other circuits do and he would have been seen on site.
I'm puzzled why he went to Coventry Hospital, as reported by BBC. Northampton is nearer and is a Major Trauma Centre. Clearly they weren't overly concerned about him if they took him all the way to Coventry!!
To send someone to Coventry is an English idiom meaning to deliberately ostracise someone. Typically, this is done by not talking to them, avoiding their company, and acting as if they no longer exist. Victims are treated as though they are completely invisible and inaudible. Coventry is a cathedral city historically in Warwickshire.
Lewis was well along side entering the braking zone, and thus entitled to space. Lewis braked earlier, but not hard enough to clear max. I assume his plan was tight in, and then wide out.
Max on the other hand knew full well that Lewis was there but turned to hit the apex anyway. as SmallSoldier's picture clearly shows.
I think this will be a learning experience for Max, as on several occasions in the past he has made a move and either hoped the other driver would get out of his way, or though he would intimidate the other driver out of the way. Now he has come up against another driver in a title fight, and has learned the hard way that sometimes people won't yield, and thus you need to pick your battles wisely.
Yeah. This is Max's first "Senna moment; " battling another in a fight bigger than a few laps. Championship thinking is what he will learn after this year that's for sure.
The amazing thing about Max is that he is his 7th! year In formula 1 so he's definitely a serious threat despite being new to title fights.
Scorpaguy wrote:Regardless of who should have given quarter, 3 things are quite evident:
1. Ham's move today was Max's signature move 3 years ago...Karma.
If it was a transgression (which I am not saying it was, I am no steward), 10 seconds is a joke, Ham likely could have made up double that with today's competition.
2. 2021 title fight...whoever is in front had better beware...you will get punted. Not a bad strategy I guess; assure your main competitor gets no points...the survivor can then salvage the day.
3. F1 has 2 great drivers currently, Ham and Max, nobody else seems to have the skills to overtake. Checo made Alb look good this weekend (no easy feat) and Bot was his usual speed-bump self. I believe it is time to start the clamor for Fred to get the other Merc/RB ride.
Ham and Max are giving us quite a show...making my $79 bucks quite worth it. Assuming Masi will step in and quell our enjoyment.
In regards to your first point… That’s a problem when we suddenly want penalties to be based on who the driver is (whether he has a fast car to cover the punishment or not… If it’s for the lead… For the championship, etc)… Penalties should be applied based on the action… Not who or what car is involved
Thanks for the reply...please note that I never said I "want". Personally I thought it a racing incident. I simply meant that since Max had done it many times before (I thought Arri was going to fit Vet's car with off-road tires), it was bound to come back to him. Glad no one was hurt.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Tried to put together a composite image but i'm not really happy with it because i struggled to account for the camera pitch etc ... anyways ... https://i.imgur.com/oQossKS.png
here's an imgur album with a few more with lines and the full corner (probably not all that precise), the full lines are based on their right wheels, the broken lines are just guesses. https://imgur.com/a/NInVRVY
Footage like this makes it extremely hard, harder than ever to take Horner’s garbage seriously.
Honestly seeing that image it looks like Verstappen had won the corner and Hamilton washed out wide.... (No joke)
Edit: it's still imo a racing incident...
Nope. This is the thing that people dont get. They are guidances for this.. The "tire diagram" that Toto Wolff emailed to Massi shows when a driver has won the corner and who should yeild or give space.
Max is on the outside. You don't win the corner from the outside by turning in towards the Apex even if slightly ahead. If the attacking car locks up guess whose coming off worse? Max of course.
Hamilton is the car and the inside. Was he alongside in the braking zone? If yes... He has the same right to the corner and Max must leavs space. (always leava da space!). If Ham is behind before the end of the braking zone he must yield. If he risks a dive-bomb then obvious penalty. If he t-bones Max while trying to "steal Max's corner. Obvious penalty. No such thing happend though. They both had equal rights to the corner but HAM has a right to a cars width inside the corner.
Max's best option there was continuing straight OR turning in more gradually to coax Lewis into lifting.
It's shows he hezitated a little when he straightened the wheel then twiched hard back inwards to the Apex when a freight train is there.
If Max's rear tyre doesn't come off it's likely a spin, not a crash. That was a freak accident and you know it as well as anyone.
And Max wasn't "IN hospital" he was visiting for a precautionary check up because he felt dizzy and Silverstone doesn't have a CT scanner on site. Some other circuits do and he would have been seen on site.
I'm puzzled why he went to Coventry Hospital, as reported by BBC. Northampton is nearer and is a Major Trauma Centre. Clearly they weren't overly concerned about him if they took him all the way to Coventry!!
Are you listening to yourself here. The tyre came off because Lewis hit Max so hard it broke the rear suspension and wheel. He hit Max so hard that he even damaged his own front wheel. This was clearly a blag flaggable offense by Lewis. At the very least it was worth of a much more significant penalty then 10 seconds.
3. F1 has 2 great drivers currently, Ham and Max, nobody else seems to have the skills to overtake. Checo made Alb look good this weekend (no easy feat) and Bot was his usual speed-bump self. I believe it is time to start the clamor for Fred to get the other Merc/RB ride.
That's a little unfair. Leclerc was outstanding today and Norris showed his metal going wheel to wheel with Alonso.
Russell continues to wring every last ounce of performance from that Williams.
Just cos Max and Lewis are in the top 2 cars, doesn't mean there aren't others on their level in the field.
Thanks for the reply. Norris...yep, he had a bad week and a bad pit stop - he gets a pass.
Rus...aside from really good quali, not seen much from him in race pace...BUT, he was epic in his Merc ride.
Lec...he of course did not need to pass anyone today. However, he was losing over a second a lap with much fresher tires.
I am still stuck on the notion that none of the other drivers are in the Ham/Max league. Given equal machinery across the grid, I would not place a marker on any driver but them. Just my humble opinion.
That image doesn't mean anything since it doesn't go back far enough to show where Max started to turn. This corner is different in that they don't brake for it if they are on the racing line and so the question you have to ask yourself is where is Lewis going to go since he is on the dirty part of the track. His trajectory is taking him to the same part of the track as where Max is which was already wide of the apex and mean Lewis is running deeper then he should be. This means that the position in the images shows Lewis to be in a false position where he shouldn't actually be if he was to make the corner. A position he is only in because he has made a mistake and he is clearly not going to make the corner. Some will say why should Lewis not go for this but then the same should be applied for Max not wanting to give this spot up and who was actually on the racing line. This is Senna vs Prost 1990 Suzuka all over again with Lewis playing the part of Senna.
In regards to the Horner comments; should not be taken to seriously. Emotions running high due to many factors.
1. Anger from his championship contender lost out massively
2. Fear of the incident that Max was significantly hurt, or could've been.
3. Anger/disappointment that the second Red Bull was not there to capitilize on the penalty, so Hamilton in some sense got out "scot free", winning the race where as Red Bull came out with nothing. Well, took the fastest lap from Hamilton, but that's pretty much nothing in the grand scheme of things.
The general consensus, bar the obvious fanboys, is that it's a hard incident to really judge properly. And if we gonna decide who's fault it is by looking at millimeters, then you venture into the territory of the equvalent of VAR in football. And that is something most people within that sport have come to hate. That VAR decides offside by millimeters. And the same thought should be given here.
Tough, hard racing where BOTH drivers could've done more. I would probably lean a little more towards Hamilton being the one that could've done more since he saw more of Verstappen that the other way around. However, Verstappen did notice Hamilton along side him, so he can't say he couldn't have done more.
Do I think the 10 seconds is fair? Yeah. Would I have raised my voice if Hamilton didn't get a penalty for it? No. I think sometimes you got to bite the sour apple and say that it was a bit of an unlucky situation. It could've very easily been both cars DNFing, or Hamilton being the one DNFing and Verstappen carrying on. It's almost a lottery which car survives a "collision" whenever two cars come together. For instance, last race Ocon got the slightest of touches and his steering rod broke and he had to retire the car. We have seen people sliding into walls and being able to continue. In this situation, Verstappen unfortunatly got the maximum shortest stick possible where as Hamilton got the longest one, bar the penalty.
The problem that we gonna have if people aren't allowed to race, or not to overtake in certain corners (Horners comments) then we will lose magic of the grand prix. I think a collision between Verstappen and Hamilton was due at some point and both drivers will recognize the situation from here on in. Will there be some minor collisions still such as loss of front wing parts and what have you; Yes, probably. Will both drivers think twice going for a risky move/defending from one? Yes, probably. Since you know that neither driver is willing to back out.
This situation isn't really to far from Spain 2021 first lap, first corner incident. It's just that Hamilton backed out of that one, where as Verstappen didn't on this one.
I would say Verstappen generally has been the more aggressive one. And I feel like this scenario was on the cards if Hamilton decided to match aggression with aggression. In this situation he somewhat did, and the result was as it was.
But as I said before, hard one to really judge. And sometimes we gotta recognize that it's just one of those situations. It could've very easily been a different outcome of the incident and Hamilton was lucky to continue to race without any damage at all, let alone race. If we start looking for millimeters and result-based analysis to much then we venture into territories which isn't really good for anyone involved in the sport.
I think that one of the reasons why Red Bull are so incensed by the incident is that they now have a trashed Verstappen race car. When Valtteri Bottas collided with George Russell at Imola, Mercedes estimated over $1m in damage, and they did not take part in a Pirelli test recently because Toto Wolff said that they determined that they could no longer afford to spend the money.
I don't think Red Bull are going to recover much usable componentry from that race car. With the cost cap, replacing all of the hardware might result in Red Bull having to make cuts somewhere else in the race team operations.
