2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[AR3-GP]

I think Suzuka suits this package way more than here to be honest.

And to be 0.2 away from pole here taking that in consideration gives me hope for pole at least in Suzuka.

But anyway, one race at a time. Lets see how race pace pans out tomorrow.

This car will be scary fast in Suzuka.

[mwillems]

Interesting results. To be honest, I didn’t expect this from Red Bull, it was a big surprise. Lando's lap pace was very good. In general, I would say that the car is not bad, the main loss of time occurs in the second sector.

If it rains in the race tomorrow, the results will be unpredictable.

Edit: Perhaps the updated technical directive had a slight impact on the speed and greatly affected the balance of the Red Bull chassis. So far there is no other explanation. They dominated all the teams all season, but here they had a distinctly weak qualification. Lawson is riding for the first time in Singapore and has just started to roll into the junior bull team and immediately outpaced the senior team.

I want to add, the TD is not just about wings but the underfloor as well, so both Speed AND grip. It reinforces TD18 AND TD39 (The floor).

I'll then add that we cannot possibly draw conclusions today as to what the effect is. it may well be all setup, it may be a small amount due to the Flexing, or any permutation/ratio of those things. Or something else entirely.

You will not know for sure what that is today. We will get an inkling as the season goes on if some teams can no longer finish the weekend in their usual positions.

RB have been getting caught in qualy now for a little while (Thanks SS! lol) but their race pace is still magnificent. let's keep an eye on that for the next 3 races or so and see how the teams do. If there is a clear drop from this weekend onwards you could confidently hazard a guess.

Lionsheart this isn't directed to you but a general post.

I'm not worried. I support your opinion on this matter. Yes, that’s true, it’s hard to say what exactly is the limiting factor for optimal balance, the flexibility of the wings or the flexibility of the bottom edge, or maybe a bumpy track plus high curbs. But there is now a precedent and it coincides with the updated provisions in the technical directive. I don’t claim the truth yet, I’m interested in how they will be able to go in the race.

The flexibility of the wings is more to do with stalling the front wing (And maybe the floor a little?) and lowering drag on the rear, so it probably won't impact the downforce. The underfloor/tunnels and floor edges are a different matter entirely and there could be some material impact there. or it could be that the underfloor has changed but this can mostly be dialled out with the right setup.

I feel optimistic that we might be getting closer again to RB, but it's just optimism, not really based on anything.

[mwillems]

I think Suzuka suits this package way more than here to be honest.

And to be 0.2 away from pole here taking that in consideration gives me hope for pole at least in Suzuka.

But anyway, one race at a time. Lets see how race pace pans out tomorrow.

This car will be scary fast in Suzuka.

And what Dare will you perform if it isn't?

[LionsHeart]

I want to add, the TD is not just about wings but the underfloor as well, so both Speed AND grip. It reinforces TD18 AND TD39 (The floor).

I'll then add that we cannot possibly draw conclusions today as to what the effect is. it may well be all setup, it may be a small amount due to the Flexing, or any permutation/ratio of those things. Or something else entirely.

You will not know for sure what that is today. We will get an inkling as the season goes on if some teams can no longer finish the weekend in their usual positions.

RB have been getting caught in qualy now for a little while (Thanks SS! lol) but their race pace is still magnificent. let's keep an eye on that for the next 3 races or so and see how the teams do. If there is a clear drop from this weekend onwards you could confidently hazard a guess.

Lionsheart this isn't directed to you but a general post.

I'm not worried. I support your opinion on this matter. Yes, that’s true, it’s hard to say what exactly is the limiting factor for optimal balance, the flexibility of the wings or the flexibility of the bottom edge, or maybe a bumpy track plus high curbs. But there is now a precedent and it coincides with the updated provisions in the technical directive. I don’t claim the truth yet, I’m interested in how they will be able to go in the race.

The flexibility of the wings is more to do with stalling the front wing (And maybe the floor a little?) and lowering drag on the rear, so it probably won't impact the downforce. The underfloor/tunnels and floor edges are a different matter entirely and there could be some material impact there. or it could be that the underfloor has changed but this can mostly be dialled out with the right setup.

I feel optimistic that we might be getting closer again to RB, but it's just optimism, not really based on anything.

Their car was not super stable and easy to control before. But even so, Max always rode it high. But today something went wrong. Either the chassis itself doesn’t fit very well, or the restrictions still took effect. A combination of some factors simply brought the Red Bull car out of the comfortable range.

By the way, you wrote earlier this week that you will be watching the slow turn 3. So Lando was very fast there and you indicated some other turn, maybe 13 and Lando was fast there too. Apparently the new products worked as they should.

[CjC]

I think Suzuka suits this package way more than here to be honest.

And to be 0.2 away from pole here taking that in consideration gives me hope for pole at least in Suzuka.

But anyway, one race at a time. Lets see how race pace pans out tomorrow.

This car will be scary fast in Suzuka.

Steady. If you recall Alpine last season thought they were going to have a wordie in Suzuka, when in reality they were just closer to the 3rd quickest team.

[MTudor]

Yes, today the thought also occurred to me that there is no need to separate mechanics and aerodynamics. Everything works together.

I said before the Austrian update that I hope that in that package should also be an update to the font suspension,because I read that Newey himself design the front and rear suspension at Redbull,and I thought that it might be pretty significant if that's the case.
Welcome to the same conclusion 3 months later

It helps to have a memory on here, because LionsHeart was also thinking there would be a suspension update and was hoping to have one, around Austria when discussions were ongoing about the other 50% of the upgrade. He and I disagreed because I thought they would bring it only with a new chassis.

Welcome to the conversation 3 months later

I'm skipping long threads that start ok,but after awhile it's my point is this,no mine is better,etc,you know the thread right after the race in Hungary

[AR3-GP]

I think Suzuka suits this package way more than here to be honest.

And to be 0.2 away from pole here taking that in consideration gives me hope for pole at least in Suzuka.

But anyway, one race at a time. Lets see how race pace pans out tomorrow.

This car will be scary fast in Suzuka.

Steady. If you recall Alpine last season thought they were going to have a wordie in Suzuka, when in reality they were just closer to the 3rd quickest team.

Alpine never was as quick as what Mclaren did in silverstone. I'm basing it on past performances at high speed circuits like Silverstone, Austria, and not wishful thinking.

[MTudor]

I hate writting in caps but I have to now:EVERY DRIVER HAS A LEARNING CURB AND IT'S PLACE WITHIN A TEAM.
Yes Lando&Oscar might be close in age but Lando is a vet in F1,Oscar is a rookie so it's only natural that the team favors Lando and I think during debrifing after FP's or the race his word has more power in the team,but Oscar by adapting so quickly and having being on par with Lando's speed the team recognize the huge talent and potential of Oscar and they are complementing each other developing the car,or when you got into a new job you had the same rank as your superior?
That kind of like in F1

[mwillems]

I'm not worried. I support your opinion on this matter. Yes, that’s true, it’s hard to say what exactly is the limiting factor for optimal balance, the flexibility of the wings or the flexibility of the bottom edge, or maybe a bumpy track plus high curbs. But there is now a precedent and it coincides with the updated provisions in the technical directive. I don’t claim the truth yet, I’m interested in how they will be able to go in the race.

The flexibility of the wings is more to do with stalling the front wing (And maybe the floor a little?) and lowering drag on the rear, so it probably won't impact the downforce. The underfloor/tunnels and floor edges are a different matter entirely and there could be some material impact there. or it could be that the underfloor has changed but this can mostly be dialled out with the right setup.

I feel optimistic that we might be getting closer again to RB, but it's just optimism, not really based on anything.

Their car was not super stable and easy to control before. But even so, Max always rode it high. But today something went wrong. Either the chassis itself doesn’t fit very well, or the restrictions still took effect. A combination of some factors simply brought the Red Bull car out of the comfortable range.

By the way, you wrote earlier this week that you will be watching the slow turn 3. So Lando was very fast there and you indicated some other turn, maybe 13 and Lando was fast there too. Apparently the new products worked as they should.

I think turn 14 is a higher energy entrance to the corner. Doesn't surprise me we are good in 3, but maybe it's just the package. I might see if I can compare Oscar to Lando on their first fast lap each.

My reasoning was just to see if the load at entry made much difference to the cars efficacy in those corners.

Of course we still need to see how the car behaves in race conditions. I believe that it might have improved a little but will still be the same.

[MTudor]

So big question. The FIA made a rule change regarding the flapping of the front and rear wings. Its still early to say but is it possible that Red Bull was affected a lot by it? They seem out of place here after that change and I have a feeling Mclaren might have lost some from their speed from that change also.

The FIA made the TD not only for flappy wing but also for the flappy joints on the floor and the wooden plaque.

[CjC]

This car will be scary fast in Suzuka.

Steady. If you recall Alpine last season thought they were going to have a wordie in Suzuka, when in reality they were just closer to the 3rd quickest team.

Alpine never was as quick as what Mclaren did in silverstone. I'm basing it on past performances at high speed circuits like Silverstone, Austria, and not wishful thinking.

I hope you are right

[Darth-Piekus]

So big question. The FIA made a rule change regarding the flapping of the front and rear wings. Its still early to say but is it possible that Red Bull was affected a lot by it? They seem out of place here after that change and I have a feeling Mclaren might have lost some from their speed from that change also.

The FIA made the TD not only for flappy wing but also for the flappy joints on the floor and the wooden plaque.

And I am wondering how much did all those changes destabilized the Red Bull car cause to me this is a car that lost a whole second in speed. It was struggling in the midfield a lot and that is something more than just a wrong set up.

[CjC]

This car will be scary fast in Suzuka.

Steady. If you recall Alpine last season thought they were going to have a wordie in Suzuka, when in reality they were just closer to the 3rd quickest team.

Alpine never was as quick as what Mclaren did in silverstone. I'm basing it on past performances at high speed circuits like Silverstone, Austria, and not wishful thinking.

I hope you are right

[MTudor]

So big question. The FIA made a rule change regarding the flapping of the front and rear wings. Its still early to say but is it possible that Red Bull was affected a lot by it? They seem out of place here after that change and I have a feeling Mclaren might have lost some from their speed from that change also.

The FIA made the TD not only for flappy wing but also for the flappy joints on the floor and the wooden plaque.

And I am wondering how much did all those changes destabilized the Red Bull car cause to me this is a car that lost a whole second in speed. It was struggling in the midfield a lot and that is something more than just a wrong set up.

Our commentators said all weekend that the Redbull is running a higher rear than before.
It might be the TD or this race dosen't matter for them,although they said that they want to win everyrace this year

[mwillems]

So big question. The FIA made a rule change regarding the flapping of the front and rear wings. Its still early to say but is it possible that Red Bull was affected a lot by it? They seem out of place here after that change and I have a feeling Mclaren might have lost some from their speed from that change also.

The FIA made the TD not only for flappy wing but also for the flappy joints on the floor and the wooden plaque.

If you mean the plank I think it was excluded from this along with the skidblock. But any other part of the floor cannot be designed to flex. If I'm not totally mistaken the plank already has prescribed flex.

But any "conclusions" made at this point are wilfull and not representative of the limited evidence available. I.e. you want it to be true. The bodywork that would affect RB is not visible to us and even then, reinforced areas of the floor would be hard to spot. Maybe it really is just an off day.

That's not the basis for anything in reality. Pull your pants up and stop getting so excited Darth Pekis