2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[MTudor]

#AMuS | McLaren can become Red Bull's biggest opponent in the long term. Because the engineers obviously understand what they are doing. Every upgrade since the #AustrianGP has taken full effect.

[BMMR61]

(Joining from the other hemisphere where the delays to Q1 from Stroll's biggie meant we didn't get to see Q1 in the morning!) Having looked at numerous opinions and sources we ought to feel pretty upbeat about the McLaren's continued evolution. Early days but I'm seeing (and hoping) a possible symmetry between Austria/Silverstone and Singapore/Suzuka. Oscar's weekend greatly compromised, Lando looking top 5, Suzuka beckons - a faster more flowing track which should play to the hi speed DF of the McLaren. In all things, conclusions can look stupid in retrospect. Regards the loss of form by RedBull I think a few people are getting ahead of their skis. I don't think they'll be able to recover from this qualifying result but Suzuka is a very different track and I seriously doubt the TD is more than a peripheral to their situation.

[MrGapes]

I honestly have to say I'm very impressed with what I've seen in the telemetry, there are a lot of corners which I expected coming into this would be a big problem, good to see I was wrong..

The Mclaren has the best traction of all the leading teams for tomorrow, they will be able to manage the rears quite well, Im trying to do some mental gymnastics to work out a way to get into that p1 position , might need to do the the greatest undercut of all time, or need that lucky safety car.

[MrGapes]

I think Suzuka suits this package way more than here to be honest.

And to be 0.2 away from pole here taking that in consideration gives me hope for pole at least in Suzuka.

But anyway, one race at a time. Lets see how race pace pans out tomorrow.

This car will be scary fast in Suzuka.

All I can say is I am incredibly excited to see this car in the s curves.

[djos]

I hate writting in caps but I have to now:EVERY DRIVER HAS A LEARNING CURB AND IT'S PLACE WITHIN A TEAM.
Yes Lando&Oscar might be close in age but Lando is a vet in F1,Oscar is a rookie so it's only natural that the team favors Lando and I think during debrifing after FP's or the race his word has more power in the team,but Oscar by adapting so quickly and having being on par with Lando's speed the team recognize the huge talent and potential of Oscar and they are complementing each other developing the car,or when you got into a new job you had the same rank as your superior?
That kind of like in F1

Oscar has more drivers championships than Lando - he knows how to win and the team confirm he doesn’t act like, or drive like a rookie.

[MrGapes]

I hate writting in caps but I have to now:EVERY DRIVER HAS A LEARNING CURB AND IT'S PLACE WITHIN A TEAM.
Yes Lando&Oscar might be close in age but Lando is a vet in F1,Oscar is a rookie so it's only natural that the team favors Lando and I think during debrifing after FP's or the race his word has more power in the team,but Oscar by adapting so quickly and having being on par with Lando's speed the team recognize the huge talent and potential of Oscar and they are complementing each other developing the car,or when you got into a new job you had the same rank as your superior?
That kind of like in F1

Oscar has more drivers championships than Lando - he knows how to win and the team confirm he doesn’t act like, or drive like a rookie.

1. if you are talking about junior racing categories he doesn't.

2. none of that matters when you come in f1...please get over it.

[mwillems]

I said before the Austrian update that I hope that in that package should also be an update to the font suspension,because I read that Newey himself design the front and rear suspension at Redbull,and I thought that it might be pretty significant if that's the case.
Welcome to the same conclusion 3 months later

It helps to have a memory on here, because LionsHeart was also thinking there would be a suspension update and was hoping to have one, around Austria when discussions were ongoing about the other 50% of the upgrade. He and I disagreed because I thought they would bring it only with a new chassis.

Welcome to the conversation 3 months later

I'm skipping long threads that start ok,but after awhile it's my point is this,no mine is better,etc,you know the thread right after the race in Hungary

Well that's your problem, and this conversation happened before Hungary so its also deflection

I think it is more the short memory syndrome that occurs on this site with many

[djos]

I hate writting in caps but I have to now:EVERY DRIVER HAS A LEARNING CURB AND IT'S PLACE WITHIN A TEAM.
Yes Lando&Oscar might be close in age but Lando is a vet in F1,Oscar is a rookie so it's only natural that the team favors Lando and I think during debrifing after FP's or the race his word has more power in the team,but Oscar by adapting so quickly and having being on par with Lando's speed the team recognize the huge talent and potential of Oscar and they are complementing each other developing the car,or when you got into a new job you had the same rank as your superior?
That kind of like in F1

Oscar has more drivers championships than Lando - he knows how to win and the team confirm he doesn’t act like, or drive like a rookie.

1. if you are talking about junior racing categories he doesn't.

2. none of that matters when you come in f1...please get over it.

1/ actually, when it comes to proper top level junior racing in Europe, they have the same number.

2/ not true. I’m good.

[trinidefender]

I want to add, the TD is not just about wings but the underfloor as well, so both Speed AND grip. It reinforces TD18 AND TD39 (The floor).

I'll then add that we cannot possibly draw conclusions today as to what the effect is. it may well be all setup, it may be a small amount due to the Flexing, or any permutation/ratio of those things. Or something else entirely.

You will not know for sure what that is today. We will get an inkling as the season goes on if some teams can no longer finish the weekend in their usual positions.

RB have been getting caught in qualy now for a little while (Thanks SS! lol) but their race pace is still magnificent. let's keep an eye on that for the next 3 races or so and see how the teams do. If there is a clear drop from this weekend onwards you could confidently hazard a guess.

Lionsheart this isn't directed to you but a general post.

I'm not worried. I support your opinion on this matter. Yes, that’s true, it’s hard to say what exactly is the limiting factor for optimal balance, the flexibility of the wings or the flexibility of the bottom edge, or maybe a bumpy track plus high curbs. But there is now a precedent and it coincides with the updated provisions in the technical directive. I don’t claim the truth yet, I’m interested in how they will be able to go in the race.

The flexibility of the wings is more to do with stalling the front wing (And maybe the floor a little?) and lowering drag on the rear, so it probably won't impact the downforce. The underfloor/tunnels and floor edges are a different matter entirely and there could be some material impact there. or it could be that the underfloor has changed but this can mostly be dialled out with the right setup.

I feel optimistic that we might be getting closer again to RB, but it's just optimism, not really based on anything.

No it's not. The flexing of the wings shown this year allows the upper flaps to back off lowering the overall angle of attack of the wing.

When the angle of attack of a wing is reduced it's less likely to stall unless there's so other factor that also changes.

What it will do however is reduce the downforce and consequently the drag produced by that wing.

If it's the front wing that is flexing and backing off then the larger effect will be a center of pressure movement rearwards as speed increases and load on the wing increases. That adds high speed stability to the car while allowing it to have a front end that is more pointy at lower speeds.

[mwillems]

I'm not worried. I support your opinion on this matter. Yes, that’s true, it’s hard to say what exactly is the limiting factor for optimal balance, the flexibility of the wings or the flexibility of the bottom edge, or maybe a bumpy track plus high curbs. But there is now a precedent and it coincides with the updated provisions in the technical directive. I don’t claim the truth yet, I’m interested in how they will be able to go in the race.

The flexibility of the wings is more to do with stalling the front wing (And maybe the floor a little?) and lowering drag on the rear, so it probably won't impact the downforce. The underfloor/tunnels and floor edges are a different matter entirely and there could be some material impact there. or it could be that the underfloor has changed but this can mostly be dialled out with the right setup.

I feel optimistic that we might be getting closer again to RB, but it's just optimism, not really based on anything.

No it's not. The flexing of the wings shown this year allows the upper flaps to back off lowering the overall angle of attack of the wing.

When the angle of attack of a wing is reduced it's less likely to stall unless there's so other factor that also changes.

What it will do however is reduce the downforce and consequently the drag produced by that wing.

If it's the front wing that is flexing and backing off then the larger effect will be a center of pressure movement rearwards as speed increases and load on the wing increases. That adds high speed stability to the car while allowing it to have a front end that is more pointy at lower speeds.

Was it just AoA because from what I saw the wings were also lowering and as the front wing gets too close to the ground it can stall. Do we know this wasn't happening? By doing so how much airflow was it preventing from reaching the floor?

But the point I was making was that the flexi wing changes wouldn't lose rear grip and that they are just about drag. It is the floor and underfloor changes that could affect downforce. I'm hoping there will be a flex comparison for visible aspects of the car that someone creates in time.

I'm interested to learn more on the effect downstream of the lowering wing though, if you have the time to explain.

[MTudor]

So big question. The FIA made a rule change regarding the flapping of the front and rear wings. Its still early to say but is it possible that Red Bull was affected a lot by it? They seem out of place here after that change and I have a feeling Mclaren might have lost some from their speed from that change also.

The FIA made the TD not only for flappy wing but also for the flappy joints on the floor and the wooden plaque.

If you mean the plank I think it was excluded from this along with the skidblock. But any other part of the floor cannot be designed to flex. If I'm not totally mistaken the plank already has prescribed flex.

But any "conclusions" made at this point are wilfull and not representative of the limited evidence available. I.e. you want it to be true. The bodywork that would affect RB is not visible to us and even then, reinforced areas of the floor would be hard to spot. Maybe it really is just an off day.

That's not the basis for anything in reality. Pull your pants up and stop getting so excited Darth Pekis

I know that the source "trust me bro" is higly unreliable,but "trust me bro" when I say this

[MTudor]

The flexibility of the wings is more to do with stalling the front wing (And maybe the floor a little?) and lowering drag on the rear, so it probably won't impact the downforce. The underfloor/tunnels and floor edges are a different matter entirely and there could be some material impact there. or it could be that the underfloor has changed but this can mostly be dialled out with the right setup.

I feel optimistic that we might be getting closer again to RB, but it's just optimism, not really based on anything.

No it's not. The flexing of the wings shown this year allows the upper flaps to back off lowering the overall angle of attack of the wing.

When the angle of attack of a wing is reduced it's less likely to stall unless there's so other factor that also changes.

What it will do however is reduce the downforce and consequently the drag produced by that wing.

If it's the front wing that is flexing and backing off then the larger effect will be a center of pressure movement rearwards as speed increases and load on the wing increases. That adds high speed stability to the car while allowing it to have a front end that is more pointy at lower speeds.

Was it just AoA because from what I saw the wings were also lowering and as the front wing gets too close to the ground it can stall. Do we know this wasn't happening? By doing so how much airflow was it preventing from reaching the floor?

But the point I was making was that the flexi wing changes wouldn't lose rear grip and that they are just about drag. It is the floor and underfloor changes that could affect downforce. I'm hoping there will be a flex comparison for visible aspects of the car that someone creates in time.

I'm interested to learn more on the effect downstream of the lowering wing though, if you have the time to explain.

From what I understood(I'm not a techy guy) the combination between the plank and flappy joints were acting like a 3rd wing creating extra downforce without any drag.

[mwillems]

The FIA made the TD not only for flappy wing but also for the flappy joints on the floor and the wooden plaque.

If you mean the plank I think it was excluded from this along with the skidblock. But any other part of the floor cannot be designed to flex. If I'm not totally mistaken the plank already has prescribed flex.

But any "conclusions" made at this point are wilfull and not representative of the limited evidence available. I.e. you want it to be true. The bodywork that would affect RB is not visible to us and even then, reinforced areas of the floor would be hard to spot. Maybe it really is just an off day.

That's not the basis for anything in reality. Pull your pants up and stop getting so excited Darth Pekis

I know that the source "trust me bro" is higly unreliable,but "trust me bro" when I say this

Interesting, I'll have to have a read about that. Interpretations online suggest the plank is not affected but maybe everything they need is there and will police it better.

It's a bigger change than I realised if so.

[mwillems]

No it's not. The flexing of the wings shown this year allows the upper flaps to back off lowering the overall angle of attack of the wing.

When the angle of attack of a wing is reduced it's less likely to stall unless there's so other factor that also changes.

What it will do however is reduce the downforce and consequently the drag produced by that wing.

If it's the front wing that is flexing and backing off then the larger effect will be a center of pressure movement rearwards as speed increases and load on the wing increases. That adds high speed stability to the car while allowing it to have a front end that is more pointy at lower speeds.

Was it just AoA because from what I saw the wings were also lowering and as the front wing gets too close to the ground it can stall. Do we know this wasn't happening? By doing so how much airflow was it preventing from reaching the floor?

But the point I was making was that the flexi wing changes wouldn't lose rear grip and that they are just about drag. It is the floor and underfloor changes that could affect downforce. I'm hoping there will be a flex comparison for visible aspects of the car that someone creates in time.

I'm interested to learn more on the effect downstream of the lowering wing though, if you have the time to explain.

From what I understood(I'm not a techy guy) the combination between the plank and flappy joints were acting like a 3rd wing creating extra downforce without any drag.

Which flappy joints? On the wing?

[geogate]

just watched an interview from Karun with Lando and George reacting to their Singapore friday practice laps on the sky pad thing. This was interesting in that even only after FP2, they knew exactly where everyone was at. Especially with Lando. It wasnt I think maybe this, maybe that - it was they are here, we are there - with absolute confidence. None of that "we dont know what programme they were running" stuff.
"Is there a chance you can out qualify the red bull" ... "absolutely, a lot of people will".