2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[chrisc90]

It a very manageable task for Max isn’t it really.
Considering he’s still able to qualify well, no doubt due to the fresh tyres mitigating some of the deficiencies with his car, there’s every chance he might win a sprint or 2, there again because the sprints are short stints the ‘bad’ race pace doesn’t bite him as much.

Yeah, should be pretty doable. Just needs to keep his nose clean and finish the race in a decent position.

Sadly - Max’s nature is to win and do the best he can. So sometimes that can be a downside to being competitive

[Paa]

It a very manageable task for Max isn’t it really.
Considering he’s still able to qualify well, no doubt due to the fresh tyres mitigating some of the deficiencies with his car, there’s every chance he might win a sprint or 2, there again because the sprints are short stints the ‘bad’ race pace doesn’t bite him as much.

Yeah, should be pretty doable. Just needs to keep his nose clean and finish the race in a decent position.

Sadly - Max’s nature is to win and do the best he can. So sometimes that can be a downside to being competitive

I think you are both not acknowledging, that Max has the 3rd best car even if discounting Merc. He needs to fight with Merc just to get P5 and need special circumstances to finish above. Yes, there are usually options which is often used by Max. But he has to rely on those to arise (Weak qualy from Piastri, strategic blunders, borderline or out of line defence moves etc). It is not in his hand to score above 10 points/race, he needs those opportunities to arise.

However Norris has a car capable of winning both qualy and race so it is perfectly in his hand to collect 100+ points.
Everybody who mentions this is an easy ride for Max, just automatically assumes that Lando will keep messing up.


Also my math is a bit more conservative as I don't want a stressful last race worrying about random DNF or such. So preferably I would want Max to have 26+ points advantage going into Abu Dhabi.
Which means he can only lose ~20 points during the following 3 races+2 sprints. Which seems almost impossible, at least not without some serious luck.
But I also think that if Max could somehow win any of the remaining races, then he would be relatively safe.

[6 of 12]

Is that because he is emotionally beat or just enjoying time off, getting drunk?

I get what you're saying about the mismanagement and that they have no alternatives without a downside. So, is this basically a 6-race shoot-out between TSU and LAW for Perez's seat? SURELY they won't keep him for next year, too?

- Now brought themselves into a lock out situation on the driver market. Too late to get a good driver.

Well... they could probably still poach the perfect wingman for Max out of Audi's hands while they put K-Mag or Bortoleto in, I guess. Bottas is not max-fast, but they don't need him to be. Or they could loan him from Audi for a year and make up their mind about LAW or TSU (or someone else) for Red Bull in 2026. Also, It's not like the IP from 2025 will be super insightful for 2026 anyway.

[basti313]

Is that because he is emotionally beat or just enjoying time off, getting drunk?

I get what you're saying about the mismanagement and that they have no alternatives without a downside. So, is this basically a 6-race shoot-out between TSU and LAW for Perez's seat? SURELY they won't keep him for next year, too?

- Now brought themselves into a lock out situation on the driver market. Too late to get a good driver.

Well... they could probably still poach the perfect wingman for Max out of Audi's hands while they put K-Mag or Bortoleto in, I guess. Bottas is not max-fast, but they don't need him to be. Or they could loan him from Audi for a year and make up their mind about LAW or TSU (or someone else) for Red Bull in 2026. Also, It's not like the IP from 2025 will be super insightful for 2026 anyway.

First I thought you mean Hulk...Hulk will not come, but I guess one big error not to hire him before. Hulk would be perfect. Fast in Q, not fast enough in the race to give issues with Max. Still fast enough for a 1-2 if the car is good. Ans loyal...which makes him not to come.

I do not think Bot makes any sense. Seeing how he did against Lewis at the end...not better than Per. And he was not even a useful wingman ever, he was just slower. Perez was a wingman in the end of 21, but this has changed. Why should anyone buy these two out of a contract?
Hiring Magnussen makes more sense...

[6 of 12]

- Now brought themselves into a lock out situation on the driver market. Too late to get a good driver.

Well... they could probably still poach the perfect wingman for Max out of Audi's hands while they put K-Mag or Bortoleto in, I guess. Bottas is not max-fast, but they don't need him to be. Or they could loan him from Audi for a year and make up their mind about LAW or TSU (or someone else) for Red Bull in 2026. Also, It's not like the IP from 2025 will be super insightful for 2026 anyway.

First I thought you mean Hulk...Hulk will not come, but I guess one big error not to hire him before. Hulk would be perfect. Fast in Q, not fast enough in the race to give issues with Max. Still fast enough for a 1-2 if the car is good. Ans loyal...which makes him not to come.

I do not think Bot makes any sense. Seeing how he did against Lewis at the end...not better than Per. And he was not even a useful wingman ever, he was just slower. Perez was a wingman in the end of 21, but this has changed. Why should anyone buy these two out of a contract?
Hiring Magnussen makes more sense...

Fair enough, I'd be fine with Magnussen staying for another year :p

[Dunlay]

- Now brought themselves into a lock out situation on the driver market. Too late to get a good driver.

Well... they could probably still poach the perfect wingman for Max out of Audi's hands while they put K-Mag or Bortoleto in, I guess. Bottas is not max-fast, but they don't need him to be. Or they could loan him from Audi for a year and make up their mind about LAW or TSU (or someone else) for Red Bull in 2026. Also, It's not like the IP from 2025 will be super insightful for 2026 anyway.

First I thought you mean Hulk...Hulk will not come, but I guess one big error not to hire him before. Hulk would be perfect. Fast in Q, not fast enough in the race to give issues with Max. Still fast enough for a 1-2 if the car is good. Ans loyal...which makes him not to come.

I do not think Bot makes any sense. Seeing how he did against Lewis at the end...not better than Per. And he was not even a useful wingman ever, he was just slower. Perez was a wingman in the end of 21, but this has changed. Why should anyone buy these two out of a contract?
Hiring Magnussen makes more sense...

Red Bull should really work hard to have 2 No.1s. Because every No.2 has been a failure when other teams have been competitive. No point in regretting not having drivers who constantly fight to be at the front. It's a worthy headache to have.

[dialtone]

https://www.racefans.net/2024/10/30/hig ... on-horner/

Basically Horner saying that Perez is staying till at least the end of the season.

[Vanja #66]

https://www.racefans.net/2024/10/30/hig ... on-horner/

Basically Horner saying that Perez is staying till at least the end of the season.

Perez might get the boot after Brasil if he fails to score again, that's how I read it

[Sergej]

Have a feeling we will have a very stressful weekend in Brazil...

[Macklaren]

Well... they could probably still poach the perfect wingman for Max out of Audi's hands while they put K-Mag or Bortoleto in, I guess. Bottas is not max-fast, but they don't need him to be. Or they could loan him from Audi for a year and make up their mind about LAW or TSU (or someone else) for Red Bull in 2026. Also, It's not like the IP from 2025 will be super insightful for 2026 anyway.

First I thought you mean Hulk...Hulk will not come, but I guess one big error not to hire him before. Hulk would be perfect. Fast in Q, not fast enough in the race to give issues with Max. Still fast enough for a 1-2 if the car is good. Ans loyal...which makes him not to come.

I do not think Bot makes any sense. Seeing how he did against Lewis at the end...not better than Per. And he was not even a useful wingman ever, he was just slower. Perez was a wingman in the end of 21, but this has changed. Why should anyone buy these two out of a contract?
Hiring Magnussen makes more sense...

Fair enough, I'd be fine with Magnussen staying for another year :p

i understand that this is all low probability hypotheticals, but in this case surely the best solution is to bring back RIC for 3 races 1) definitively determines his speed in the main car vs 2023 Silverstone test 2) gives him proper sendoff 3) optionality for '25

[TeamKoolGreen]

I thought sister teams are equal competitors but then Marko says this:

Well, what else should he say? Of course you should not hit the car, you want to sit in next year.
It was simply the opposite of what is usually said here by some...that the RB is not racing hard against the own team, but only against others...well...strong example that one can overdo it, that was Verstappen on Norris style hard

What Max did yesterday is beyond just a penalty! There needs to be a whole conversation in the FIA drivers briefing about such tactics of purposefully running the other off track to decide a race result…

Yes, we need to come back to clean racing. Everyone behind each other, maybe a clean DRS pass. Not this fighting all the time...every race someone "outbraking" someone...disgusting.

Remember a few races back, there was the thing about Perez's current contract having clauses about minimum points ? What happened to that ? I guess Perez is just in it to the end now. Its rather embarrassing. Ferrari are already ahead in constructors points. There's no way in hell he's coming back next year. That whole 2 year contract was one of the most embarrassing gaffs in Red Bull history.

I do not know, why anyone speaks about contracts, they do not matter! The contract is just a matter of money, they can say every day, "here is your new seat" and point to the armchair next to the car. There is no obligation in any contract to sit in the car.
But the simple issue is, that there is no other driver. They can not get someone middle of the season from another team. There is no Hulkenberg on the market...
So what should they do...bring Seb Vettel back?
They desperately try to check if Lawson can do it. But the only available drivers, Tsunoda, Lawson, Colapinto...I do not see so far a rising star.

Are you seriously suggesting that Checo is coming back next year ? Do you want to bet ? Its the second year in aa row that he completely blew his home race. He has been collapsing for 2 seasons now.

Almost anyone not named Logan Sargeant would do.

And one more thing. This idea that contracts mean nothing in F1 is quite overblown. They actually do mean something. Anyone can move anywhere theoretically. But it doesn't happen very often if at all and huge money in release fees and whatnot are written into them. The idea that Leclerc could trade places with Max and Lando could also go to Ferrari over one winter because contracts mean nothing is ridiculous.

[Dazmacca5700]

That is what is wrong with the Internet and society these days. There are people who think their opinion carries the same weight as facts and evidence do.

Nah, imho what's wrong is that opinions are stated as facts and evidence to prove perceptions, making the real trouble the killing of any debate from whatever high horse is ridden.

Anyway, it was most certainly biased stewarding, and felt like a fix for last week.

T4 Mex was T12 US except Ver kept it on track; there was an offtrack pass that should have been punished but wasn't.

T8 felt maybe wild because of speed and the fact that tracklimits were not held by both; the pass was made ontrack, there was no passing offtrack.
Because of speed one could argue about a 5s for crowding offtrack, but that's it. Then again overspeed seemed way worse because of Lando's early braking.
Onesided stewarding born out of overcompensation .. 1x 5s or (for the heck of it) 10s would have made more sense, 20s plus points is mindblowing

https://player.fm/series/shiftf1-a-formula-1-podcast

Excellent podcast of Mexico GP (first 30 mins or so)

T4 Mex was not the same because Norris was ahead. This was crucial reason they punished Norris for T12 US (he was behind there). I do wish it was the same and that you have to leave the space to the other driver and not overtake off the track. This will become messy.

[Wouter]

Well, this man is a steward AGAIN this weekend:
.

Johnny Herbert: 'Penalty we gave Verstappen won't stop him pushing Norris off track again'

October 30th 2024
Max Verstappen clashed with Lando Norris in Mexico because he wanted a Ferrari 1-2 finish at the expense of his title rival, says Johnny Herbert, who was one of the stewards who handed 20sec of penalties to the Red Bull driver, who he believes is prepared to push Norris off the track again

Verstappen and Norris are set to clash again in Sao Paulo

Max Verstappen was in a “horrible mindset” and fully deserved the 20 seconds of penalties he received in the Mexico City Grand Prix after his “over-the-top” driving, says Johnny Herbert, who was one of the stewards judging the incident last weekend.

But the former British Grand Prix winner believes that the sanction will have no effect on Verstappen’s driving style, and that the reigning world champion will attack and defend just as aggressively at this weekend’s race in Sao Paulo; at a circuit that’s no stranger to track limit and overtaking wrangles.

“Those penalties in Mexico won’t stop Max Verstappen from pushing Lando Norris off the track in the future,” Herbert told sports betting firm Action Network. “I don’t see Verstappen’s driving changing because the number one goal is to stop Norris from closing the gap for the drivers’ championship. We potentially still have a lot of interesting racing coming our way.”

“The whole intention of Verstappen [in Mexico] was to try to let Ferrari get the one-two finish,” said Herbert. “I think that’s definitely what Verstappen intended and tried to achieve, I understand why he did it but I don’t agree with it, I don’t think many people do.

https://archive.is/1I3ej

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... ack-again/

.
.
BTW, did he gave Leclerc a penalty too for saying the F word during the Press Conference?

[Wouter]

Here is yet another article from PlanetF1, that great independent British website that is already stirring things up
to have Max disqualified from the World Championship standings.
.

Might the use of a championship disqualification threat by the FIA, like after Jerez 1997, work
to keep a battle between Max Verstappen and Lando Norris fair towards the end of the F1 2024 season?

https://www.planetf1.com/features/max-v ... ampionship

[basti313]

I thought sister teams are equal competitors but then Marko says this:

Well, what else should he say? Of course you should not hit the car, you want to sit in next year.
It was simply the opposite of what is usually said here by some...that the RB is not racing hard against the own team, but only against others...well...strong example that one can overdo it, that was Verstappen on Norris style hard

What Max did yesterday is beyond just a penalty! There needs to be a whole conversation in the FIA drivers briefing about such tactics of purposefully running the other off track to decide a race result…

Yes, we need to come back to clean racing. Everyone behind each other, maybe a clean DRS pass. Not this fighting all the time...every race someone "outbraking" someone...disgusting.

Remember a few races back, there was the thing about Perez's current contract having clauses about minimum points ? What happened to that ? I guess Perez is just in it to the end now. Its rather embarrassing. Ferrari are already ahead in constructors points. There's no way in hell he's coming back next year. That whole 2 year contract was one of the most embarrassing gaffs in Red Bull history.

I do not know, why anyone speaks about contracts, they do not matter! The contract is just a matter of money, they can say every day, "here is your new seat" and point to the armchair next to the car. There is no obligation in any contract to sit in the car.
But the simple issue is, that there is no other driver. They can not get someone middle of the season from another team. There is no Hulkenberg on the market...
So what should they do...bring Seb Vettel back?
They desperately try to check if Lawson can do it. But the only available drivers, Tsunoda, Lawson, Colapinto...I do not see so far a rising star.

Are you seriously suggesting that Checo is coming back next year ? Do you want to bet ? Its the second year in aa row that he completely blew his home race. He has been collapsing for 2 seasons now.

Almost anyone not named Logan Sargeant would do.

And one more thing. This idea that contracts mean nothing in F1 is quite overblown. They actually do mean something. Anyone can move anywhere theoretically. But it doesn't happen very often if at all and huge money in release fees and whatnot are written into them. The idea that Leclerc could trade places with Max and Lando could also go to Ferrari over one winter because contracts mean nothing is ridiculous.

Well, interesting questions, I try to answer:
Yes.
No.

I like the point that Dunlay made. Actually they need to and want to come to two good drivers. But which Nr.1 driver you guys have in mind?
Please forget about a switcharoo where Leclerc replaces Norris, replaces Verstappen, replces Hamlilton and somehow also Russel changes the team. It is already too much for me to see one of the top drivers moving, there is no faint talking...Eddy did not say anything, right?