2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[les arcs]

Max will be Max, and if that means driving a Norris off the track he will, as it’s to his advantage.

It’s not like he doesn’t have history….

Max is fast, he’s also crap at racing.

After his antics in Brazil 2021 they should have got after him, his antics haven’t gotten any better, he doesn’t do pressure. He’s fine when he has a car 2 seconds quicker than the rest, otherwise he’s a bully.

Here is yet another article from PlanetF1, that great independent British website that is already stirring things up
to have Max disqualified from the World Championship standings.
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Might the use of a championship disqualification threat by the FIA, like after Jerez 1997, work
to keep a battle between Max Verstappen and Lando Norris fair towards the end of the F1 2024 season?

https://www.planetf1.com/features/max-v ... ampionship

[Wouter]

Here is yet another article from PlanetF1, that great independent British website that is already stirring things up
to have Max disqualified from the World Championship standings.
.

Might the use of a championship disqualification threat by the FIA, like after Jerez 1997, work
to keep a battle between Max Verstappen and Lando Norris fair towards the end of the F1 2024 season?

https://www.planetf1.com/features/max-v ... ampionship

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Max is fast, he’s also crap at racing.

He’s fine when he has a car 2 seconds quicker than the rest, otherwise he’s a bully.

[avantman]

Max is fast, he’s also crap at racing.

Everyone who knows a thing about racing, thinks he the best racer out there, together with Alonso. There were no better racers, likely in the history, not just in modern era.

[Dunlay]

Max is fast, he’s also crap at racing.

Everyone who knows a thing about racing, thinks he the best racer out there, together with Alonso. There were no better racers, likely in the history, not just in modern era.

Like Alonso? Not in a million years.
Max has no clue what wheel to wheel racing means. He has great driving skills. One of the very best in the history of F1.

[Paa]

Max is fast, he’s also crap at racing.

Everyone who knows a thing about racing, thinks he the best racer out there, together with Alonso. There were no better racers, likely in the history, not just in modern era.

Like Alonso? Not in a million years.
Max has no clue what wheel to wheel racing means. He has great driving skills. One of the very best in the history of F1.

I think you are mixing racing skills with racing ethics. They are not the same.

[avantman]

Max is fast, he’s also crap at racing.

Everyone who knows a thing about racing, thinks he the best racer out there, together with Alonso. There were no better racers, likely in the history, not just in modern era.

Like Alonso? Not in a million years.
Max has no clue what wheel to wheel racing means. He has great driving skills. One of the very best in the history of F1.

That's common opinion, well shared by people from F1 paddock. I of course think Max is far better when it comes to attack. In defence they are pretty close, although Max is a lot more uncompromising, Alonso more cunning (take Australia against Russell this year as an example. Max doesn't make such moves). But, I might be biased of course. Irrespective of personal opinions, people who say Ver is bad as a racer in battling on the track, these people don't understand what they are talking about and aren't even worth talking to. That's the level of reddit and twitter, level of understanding of average dts fan.

[tinuva]

Max will be Max, and if that means driving a Norris off the track he will, as it’s to his advantage.

It’s not like he doesn’t have history….

Max is fast, he’s also crap at racing.

Just remind me. This was not Max doing clean racing?

[Macafangrskg]

Max will be Max, and if that means driving a Norris off the track he will, as it’s to his advantage.

It’s not like he doesn’t have history….

Max is fast, he’s also crap at racing.

Just remind me. This was not Max doing clean racing?

And lost the battle. It answered your own question

[Juzh]

Max will be Max, and if that means driving a Norris off the track he will, as it’s to his advantage.

It’s not like he doesn’t have history….

Max is fast, he’s also crap at racing.

Just remind me. This was not Max doing clean racing?

And lost the battle. It answered your own question

And won the next one in saudi arabia. I guess that makes leclerc crap at racing.

[Schippke]

First I thought you mean Hulk...Hulk will not come, but I guess one big error not to hire him before. Hulk would be perfect. Fast in Q, not fast enough in the race to give issues with Max. Still fast enough for a 1-2 if the car is good. Ans loyal...which makes him not to come.

I do not think Bot makes any sense. Seeing how he did against Lewis at the end...not better than Per. And he was not even a useful wingman ever, he was just slower. Perez was a wingman in the end of 21, but this has changed. Why should anyone buy these two out of a contract?
Hiring Magnussen makes more sense...

Fair enough, I'd be fine with Magnussen staying for another year :p

i understand that this is all low probability hypotheticals, but in this case surely the best solution is to bring back RIC for 3 races 1) definitively determines his speed in the main car vs 2023 Silverstone test 2) gives him proper sendoff 3) optionality for '25

I typically dabble in the Ferrari forum section, but thought I'd be brave and try my hand in this...

I don't see Perez getting let go until the end of the Season; Simply put, what would putting another driver in the Red Bull seat change for them now? A potential Wing Man for Max to try secure the drivers title, which he most likely will do anyway on his own? I think Red Bull have had to settle for 3rd now in the Constructors, given the pace McLaren and Ferrari have shown the last few races. They might claw some points back on Ferrari (most likely in Brazil given the expected cool/wet conditions), but McLaren has checked out. Even if you put a driver that gets better results over Perez and runs close to Max, 3rd still seems the likely place they'll finish.

Even if you replace Perez, who do you put there? Out of all (in the Red Bull family), you'd say Tsunoda given the fact he's been in F1 for a few seasons with the Red Bull family and would be the most experienced out of the pool to try make something of it. Lawson, whilst showing great speed, is still inexperienced and there would be more pressure on him to perform as well... one might say Daniel Ricciardo makes a return for final 3-races, but as much as the F1 world (and myself would love that), it isn't going to happen; It little sense on so many levels.

Then the argument comes to RB, who are close to Haas (also on the up pace wise as of recent); There is 10 points between them and there is a chance they could still finish ahead, so having Tsunoda and Lawson would be their best bet of doing so... it'll mean something to Red Bull as well financially to have both teams finish as high as possible. And even if you take either driver for the Perez seat, you'd most likely put in Isack Hadjar, but given the fact he is leading the F2 Championship with 2 rounds to go, doubt they'll do that...

So yeah, my (worthless) 2 cents. I don't see anything changing on the Red Bull front, and certainly don't see them getting anybody else from outside their driver pool between now and seasons end. But hey, weirder things have happened... and this all could age like milk!

[Macafangrskg]

Just remind me. This was not Max doing clean racing?

And lost the battle. It answered your own question

And won the next one in saudi arabia. I guess that makes leclerc crap at racing.

Hold on. I am not saying that Max is bad at racing. He is one of the greatest. He is also very bad looser. If he doesn't have the equipment he is prone to "errors" "bad judgments" and other quotes .... He remind me a lot of Vettel in the early years. If he starts in the front and he has the car he will execute the perfect race. If he doesn't he will try to force his way.

The biggest problem that RB did was to design a car for one driver and try to make to work for the other.When the other cars start catching you in race pace and especially McLaren and Ferrari that now are generally easy to setup and drive you are finished.

It is okham razor situation . You can make the car easier to setup and drive and then you lose the WDC or you try to make faster for Max and try to win the WDC and lose the WCC

[basti313]

.... you'd most likely put in Isack Hadjar, but given the fact he is leading the F2 Championship with 2 rounds to go, doubt they'll do that...

Interesting fact! I missed this one.
If Hadjar wins F2, he is not allowed to compete in F2 next year, right? Or was this rule changed?

That means they need to promote one driver to RedBull if they want to have a seat for Hadjar in RB....and not again let a promising driver run through useless classes like Lawson.

[avantman]

To all the people that think that Max doesn't know how to race and has no skill bluh bluh blug and he only tries to crash his championship rival out(but never succeeds, because he is supposedly not good enough), Norris this year, Hamilton previously throughout 2021. I take upon myself to explain in short what that's all about.

Speaking on Mexican GP, yes, It's true that he was placing his car in such a way that Norris had to avoid the contact, which is very normal thing to do in any motorsports, if you watch other racing at all. Drivers(or riders in moto) have to take avoiding actions all the times, it's part of their job literally, it's their responsibility. If drivers were driving like they were alone on the track, not taking other cars/bikes placement into account, any racing wouldn't be possible. Driver can make a mistake, a car can have catastrophic car failure (brakes failure f e), so rivals number one priority is to avoid accidents when they can.
Max knows how to put his rival in a weak position, where it's his rivals responsibility to avoid. He knows when it plays in his favor to leave this choice to crash or not to crash in the hands of his rivals. and of course he knows when he doesn't want to leave this choice to his rival, like when he has a faster car, and he doesn't want to take any excessive risks. Yes, hard racing is always risk-reward exercise. It's also a mental battle, like in fact in any professional sports at the highest level. It's very normal strategy to try and get into rivals head, to asks the rival tough questions (figuratively speaking) and force the rival take tough decisions, in order to disrupt the rival and get an advantage.

In Mexico if Norris kept turning to the left on the exit of T4, or in the exit of T7 having Max car ahead and right in front of him in his clear view, as if Max RB20 wasn't there, then he and not Max would cause a collision. Yes, even if Max made a mistake (deliberate or not), violate the rules "forcing him out" it's always the car behind that is in better the position to avoid. Max put Norris in that position. because he knows of course,that Lando knows he's got much faster car and he won't decide to crash and risk another DNF (hey, learned anything from Austria, Lando?), he will most likely avoid. He reads him like an open book. This is what he takes advantage from. It's mental exercise as well as risk-reward game. And there is no one who plays this game better. That's not the same thing as trying to crash rival out deliberately. Would be silly to assume even, that he was going to crash Lando deliberately in any of the incidents between them this year.

[TimW]

Max will be Max, and if that means driving a Norris off the track he will, as it’s to his advantage.

It’s not like he doesn’t have history….

Max is fast, he’s also crap at racing.

Just remind me. This was not Max doing clean racing?

Leclerc doing this weird smart-ass old school switchback thing when Max dives on the inside. Why does he not simply hang on on the outside and let himself being run off the track? Would have required far less brain power.

[Vanja #66]

Well, this man is a steward AGAIN this weekend:
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Johnny Herbert: 'Penalty we gave Verstappen won't stop him pushing Norris off track again'

October 30th 2024
Max Verstappen clashed with Lando Norris in Mexico because he wanted a Ferrari 1-2 finish at the expense of his title rival, says Johnny Herbert, who was one of the stewards who handed 20sec of penalties to the Red Bull driver, who he believes is prepared to push Norris off the track again

Verstappen and Norris are set to clash again in Sao Paulo

Max Verstappen was in a “horrible mindset” and fully deserved the 20 seconds of penalties he received in the Mexico City Grand Prix after his “over-the-top” driving, says Johnny Herbert, who was one of the stewards judging the incident last weekend.

But the former British Grand Prix winner believes that the sanction will have no effect on Verstappen’s driving style, and that the reigning world champion will attack and defend just as aggressively at this weekend’s race in Sao Paulo; at a circuit that’s no stranger to track limit and overtaking wrangles.

“Those penalties in Mexico won’t stop Max Verstappen from pushing Lando Norris off the track in the future,” Herbert told sports betting firm Action Network. “I don’t see Verstappen’s driving changing because the number one goal is to stop Norris from closing the gap for the drivers’ championship. We potentially still have a lot of interesting racing coming our way.”

“The whole intention of Verstappen [in Mexico] was to try to let Ferrari get the one-two finish,” said Herbert. “I think that’s definitely what Verstappen intended and tried to achieve, I understand why he did it but I don’t agree with it, I don’t think many people do.

https://archive.is/1I3ej

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... ack-again/

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BTW, did he gave Leclerc a penalty too for saying the F word during the Press Conference?

Truly repulsive and biased language from Herbert. He's basically saying they'll hand out a penalty to Max whatever happens, which is exactly what I pointed out to with their bs T8 penalty decision.

"Max Verstappen was in a “horrible mindset” ... " What the hell does a steward have to do with assessing any driver's state of mind and making a non-educated analysis of it?!?